STS: Is it just a bad system.....?

[CarDude]

We started to distance ourselves from the kit far before anybody began having problems.
We saw problems on our shop truck with the boost being very inconsistent.
Try tuning when each pull was a different boost curve.
We gave them what they asked for and they were supposed to take it from there.
They initially wanted to run one additional injector like they do on some of their other kits.
We suggested four for a more even pulse stream.
Beyond that, they pretty much used our name to help lend credibility to the kit. Something I didn't sign up for or receive anything for, except grief.
They paid $0 for R&D and $0 for us attempting to assist customers.
How much more could we have tried to do with a kit that wasn't ours?
If you want to blame me or say I'm responsible for something to do with that kit, blame me for selling them the parts they asked for.
I am not responsible for what they did, or didn't do with those parts.
No ill will toward them from my side. It was certainly a learning experience....

Regards,
Sean

Sean,
I appreciate your attitude toward the whole thing but you were far too involved to not take responsibility. You should have say "NO way to being a party to a jury rigged system." I spoke with you on far too many ocassions not to be able to assign you blame, as it was your parts that held up my system from shipping in the first place. You could have said no way...and I would have never received my STS in the first place. You provided the parts that caused the problems...you even sold some of the systems or tried to as I saw them on your website. I spent thousands of dollars to almost lose my engine. Yes it was my choice to add the system, but I saw your name attached to the system (a well-known Viper tuner) and did research you, only to still waste tons of money (10k+ down the drain). I am not bashing you, just letting people who talk about this stupid system know where the failure lies. Tuning, tuning, tuning...if you can't tune it you will lose it.

 

[Django]

Sean,

When posting this thread I had NO intent of bringing up any dirty laundry associated with you or even STS for that matter.... I was more concerned over whether the STS system was safe with the 'Vette or if a Procharger is a better way to go....

Sorry that it had to involve you.... If I had looked down the road a bit further, I would have seen this coming, but I didn't.... Roe racing has a really great reputation on this forum and I'm sure elsewhere. I had no though of doing damage to it..

D

 

[Django]

One of our members was kind enough to bring an error to my attention from my last post....

The word "NOT" was conspicuously absent from my comment- changing the entire meaning of my words. I have changed it to reflect that.

Sorry to anyone who was led away from my true meaning....

Thanks, Dave....

D

 

[Annu Kumar]

One of our members was kind enough to bring an error to my attention from my last post....

The word "NOT" was conspicuously absent from my comment- changing the entire meaning of my words. I have changed it to reflect that.

Sorry to anyone who was led away from my true meaning....

Thanks, Dave....

D

Damn Guys Sorry About your losses and time wasted. I think doidn your due dilligence is the most important part of this game.

 

[Roz]

Tim, I wish I had more expert advice for ya. Jake's right, I used to be pretty deeply involved in the LSx realm, several years ago.

I've actually spoken to Rick at STS several years ago. From what I gathered, the STS is system is the BEST BANG FOR BUCK available. I was looking into adding the system to my stock T/A. I already had LS1 edit, to do my tuning. Granted I never installed the STS sytem, I never even purchased it. I'm glad I didn't. I don't mean to demean what Rick has going on, but at the time, it wasn't worth it to me. I could add heads/cam/intake and achieve higher number than the STS system on my STOCK LS1. BUT, it was cheaper to add the STS rather than purchase new heads etc. PLUS, the installation appeared to be a cinch!!! So THAT'S why I say it was the best bang for buck. At the time, I drove my TA pretty often, and I was concerned with the turbo getting damaged.

So, all that to say, if you're on a budget, the STS system is the way to go on LSx powered vehicles. I think (I haven't done much research lately) the system was designed to be added onto a stock vehicle at low boost (5psi).

If it were ME, (knowing I ain't the richest mofo on the block) I'd consider the STS kit on a LSx powered car any day. I'm sure Rick can customize the kit to fit your needs. I wouldn't order from their website via their shopping cart (cookie cutter kit). I'd actually call Rick and tell him what I want the car to do.

Others have hit the nail on the head, TUNING IS KEY. There's some great LS1 tuning software out there. I was very dissappointed to know the same thing didn't exist for the Viper V10. . .

I think you'd be happy with a STS Vette Tim. I wouldn't snub my nose at it all.

 

[Silverback]

There are six members, myself included, that I know of. I believe all were installed on stock engines. There was a mix of failures to A/F and boost.
2001

You forgot about BigAsp. Phil blew up his first motor that was stock. The second motor was a real nice build, with forged components. It blew on the dyno also.

 

[Roe Racing]

You provided the parts that caused the problems...you even sold some of the systems or tried to as I saw them on your website..

We did NOT sell them any parts that controlled boost. Their boost went anywhere between 2 and 10 psi. Who the hell knows why.
Again, I can accept blame for selling them parts, but not responsibility for how they used them OR how they wanted the tuning done.
I am not associated with STS and am sorry I sold them the parts they asked for or accepted calls from people asking for help.

 

[FlyingLow]

STS bought our system back for $4K. ...

How did you swing that?

 

[SCVette]

I continue to run the STS system on my truck, although I'm on my third motor. I am now good at taking disappointment, tuning and taking the motor out in 4 hours.:burnout:
I have run 8lbs of boost with meth, intercooler, nitrous/propane for 8k miles now with no problems, although I have a MSD knock alert meter on the dash.

I have a brand new uninstalled SRT truck system in the garage(bought two) that STS offered to trade out for a different vehicle package. I dont have another car that needs a turbo charger. Anyone want a good deal on a STS kit, for say a vette or camaro? I will pursue them to get it traded.

Taylor

 

[CarDude]

How did you swing that?

I called and told them I wanted my money back...because they could not get the system to work, and at the time we thought my engine died. I told them the 4k would go towards the new engine. It cost me a fortune to remove the STS get the engine back to looking stock.

 

[JMB Justin]

Ive seen the STS make big peak #'s on various cars (c6 vettes, Ls1's, and LS2 GTO's), but spool time is very long for the power you get out of it, plus the boost is inconsistent. Its like having a huge turbo but getting small turbo power #'s.
Justin

 

[FerrariTruck]

Ive seen the STS make big peak #'s on various cars (c6 vettes, Ls1's, and LS2 GTO's), but spool time is very long for the power you get out of it, plus the boost is inconsistent. Its like having a huge turbo but getting small turbo power #'s.
Justin

Thats cuz this turbo set up works off back pressure and not heat energy like a conventional turbo system. Silveraback has stated this many times

 

[Ram From Hell]

Thats cuz this turbo set up works off back pressure and not heat energy like a conventional turbo system. Silveraback has stated this many times

Well, that's partially true.

If you don't think there's any heat energy left by the time it hits the turbos, you're welcome to place your private parts on one after a good run.

The SRT setup had the turbo right after the mid-pipes, so the heat has even less time to dissipate on it than on the Vette setup (and the exhaust gas is still plenty hot when it hits those).

 

[Silverback]

Well, that's partially true.

If you don't think there's any heat energy left by the time it hits the turbos, you're welcome to place your private parts on one after a good run.

The SRT setup had the turbo right after the mid-pipes, so the heat has even less time to dissipate on it than on the Vette setup (and the exhaust gas is still plenty hot when it hits those).

Heat energy is different than HOT.

 

[Prof]

Yup...Denise is hot, Jerry produces heat energy when he breaks wind.

I'm with you Silverback!

 

[amtrucker22]

Yup...Denise is hot, Jerry produces heat energy when he breaks wind.

I'm with you Silverback!

Very nice!

 

[Muzzy]

Turbo charging anything requires some thought. I have to give some kudos to those vendors that are brave enough to make a kit. Any mod has a consequence if you are not careful.

As far as our trucks...I would not push boost into any engine without beefing up the internals. Our trucks have a pretty good low end with a forged crank and powdered metal rods. However, it was build for N/A operation. There are few successful boosted Viper engines with stock internals. Don't expect to get 50K miles out of a stock low end under boost. Next I would convert our fuel system to a return line system that uses an adjustable pressure regulator (adds flexibility with injector pulse width adjustments). I would then upgrade the injectors to handle the amount of fuel that was required (would probably require fuel pump upgrade too). You then need something to control it all with, so I would go with the VEC3 (mainly since that is the easiest option, a stand alone ECU would be best, but that is a lot of work). I'd also have a wide band O2 installed to monitor A/F. The problem with boost on the STS may be solved with an electronic boost controller like the Greddy. You'd probably need a MAP sensor upgrade to a 2 or 3 BAR sensor. Then I would spend lots of time tuning watching fuel trim and lambda (wide band O2).

I have been though this before with a non-viper engine. It is definitely not something you can throw together in a weekend. I think most turbo kits get you what you need to turbocharge your vehicle in one nice package, but few are turn key installs.

Good luck to anyone going for boost....it is definitely a good power adder.

-Muzzy

 

[Prof]

Turbo charging anything requires some thought. I have to give some kudos to those vendors that are brave enough to make a kit. Any mod has a consequence if you are not careful.

As far as our trucks...I would not push boost into any engine without beefing up the internals. Our trucks have a pretty good low end with a forged crank and powdered metal rods. However, it was build for N/A operation. There are few successful boosted Viper engines with stock internals. Don't expect to get 50K miles out of a stock low end under boost. Next I would convert our fuel system to a return line system that uses an adjustable pressure regulator (adds flexibility with injector pulse width adjustments). I would then upgrade the injectors to handle the amount of fuel that was required (would probably require fuel pump upgrade too). You then need something to control it all with, so I would go with the VEC3 (mainly since that is the easiest option, a stand alone ECU would be best, but that is a lot of work). I'd also have a wide band O2 installed to monitor A/F. The problem with boost on the STS may be solved with an electronic boost controller like the Greddy. You'd probably need a MAP sensor upgrade to a 2 or 3 BAR sensor. Then I would spend lots of time tuning watching fuel trim and lambda (wide band O2).

I have been though this before with a non-viper engine. It is definitely not something you can throw together in a weekend. I think most turbo kits get you what you need to turbocharge your vehicle in one nice package, but few are turn key installs.

Good luck to anyone going for boost....it is definitely a good power adder.

-Muzzy

I'm certainly not the one to dispute anything you have stated above. But your opinion would be appreciated...your post relates to turbo charging...so can you go back one step and give us your decision process in looking at turbo charging vrs. supercharging...just seems to me that on the front end (if you are not shooting for over a 1000 rwhp, that the supercharging route seems the more practical and less problematic approach...what is your opinion?

Thanks in advance for the super posts that really educate and in a way I can almost understand!

Roy

 

[RatMotor]

So do all STS systems use the same/similar piggyback tuners that seems to be the root of most of the problems? A friend of mine has a newer F150, STS is offering him a pretty good deal on a prototype system. Should I tell him to wave off?

 

[TurboFreak]

No the other kits like the GM ones use either a nelson tune or the buyer could get EFI Live, HP Tuners, etc. on his own. Only the vegicles with no real tuning get the piggyback stuff.

Now that the F-150 has tuning for F/I it should be good especially if your friend is getting a good deal.