Thank god for the Hennessey advice

[Roz]

If you are building a Gen 3 Viper motor then there are some things you can do to help reduce this risk.

:dontknow: :dontknow: :dontknow: :dontknow:

 

[HaulinAsp]

We first discovered the #3 rod bearing problem back in 1998. Dave and I both lost motors in our Viper GTS coupes on back to back weekends doing some high speed testing.

There are a lot of theories on what causes the problem and that is an entire seperate discussion which I dont have time to get into. But you can sum it up by saying that the oiling system on the gen 2 and gen 3 viper motors is not up to the task under certain conditions. The conditions that can kill a viper motor via the number 3 are high g-load and high rpm. Number 3 can let go on both stock and modded motors.

Here is what happens: if the number 3 rod bearing gets oil starved it will get hot and break the rod near the crank. Then it holes the block. Game over.

If you are building a Gen 3 Viper motor then there are some things you can do to help reduce this risk.

Such as ? ? ? ? ?

Dammit my game was over 2 weeks ago and I am trying to find a solution but the vague answer is not helping me Mr. Hennessey. Could you further elaborate into this issue as you would be helping out several of us who are currenty with windowed blocks and #3 rods a broken.....

 

[Dave Golder]

Were done now. Now lets see if Dave can man up and produce the #3 answer, if yes, then something has changed, if not...

Speaking to the Techs about this I will give you the information we have and what we are doing to combat the problem. they believe it is caused by cavitation of the oil at speed. the more sustained load the car is under during high RPM the bigger the chance at failing. It has happened on Stock bottom ends and modified bottom ends and both times to me at speeds around 200mph.

For a gen 2 their is not much of a fix other than leaving the clearance on the #3 rod bearing on the loose side of acceptable clearance.

For Gen 3 we also do that but we also send our Oil Pump covers out to be modified. It involves modifying the cover and also having a special gear made.

I am sorry I can't give out the information on who we have do that because we also supply those covers to our competition and really have no desire to lose that profit stream. This is not a cheap process and retails for a little over $900

But that is what we do, and I would also recommend a rev limiter to a few hundred less RPM than the stock red line. You wont lose much power and it is a cheap insurance policy.

If anyone wants or needs this done I will be happy to arrange it as well as offer a discount to you to try to mend some fences.

Sorry I can't go into more detail but that is exactly how we try to combat it. is it fool proof no.....but does it help.....absolutely.

 

[Dave Golder]

Such as ? ? ? ? ?

Dammit my game was over 2 weeks ago and I am trying to find a solution but the vague answer is not helping me Mr. Hennessey. Could you further elaborate into this issue as you would be helping out several of us who are currenty with windowed blocks and #3 rods a broken.....

Sorry we were on the computer at the same time posting responses.

 

[HaulinAsp]

Speaking to the Techs about this I will give you the information we have and what we are doing to combat the problem. they believe it is caused by cavitation of the oil at speed. the more sustained load the car is under during high RPM the bigger the chance at failing. It has happened on Stock bottom ends and modified bottom ends and both times to me at speeds around 200mph.

For a gen 2 their is not much of a fix other than leaving the clearance on the #3 rod bearing on the loose side of acceptable clearance.

For Gen 3 we also do that but we also send our Oil Pump covers out to be modified. It involves modifying the cover and also having a special gear made.

I am sorry I can't give out the information on who we have do that because we also supply those covers to our competition and really have no desire to lose that profit stream. This is not a cheap process and retails for a little over $900

But that is what we do, and I would also recommend a rev limiter to a few hundred less RPM than the stock red line. You wont lose much power and it is a cheap insurance policy.

If anyone wants or needs this done I will be happy to arrange it as well as offer a discount to you to try to mend some fences.

Sorry I can't go into more detail but that is exactly how we try to combat it. is it fool proof no.....but does it help.....absolutely.

PM sent on the offer of discount.

 

[HaulinAsp]

Sorry we were on the computer at the same time posting responses.

This I now see- Pm coming....

 

[seth]

Dave, good response

 

[Venom Power]

Thank you Dave, and thank you John. Your explainations regarding the #3 failure are the only ones I've seen thus far. When I get back into the country I will try contacting you to see if we could get this eventual problem licked before it occurs. Again, thank you for your responses.

 

[HaulinAsp]

Is this something with the cover that I can mill larger on my own Bridgeport Mill-then order the upgraded parts through you??

 

[Dave Golder]

Is this something with the cover that I can mill larger on my own Bridgeport Mill-then order the upgraded parts through you??

I would assume it is not rocket science but our vendor will not sell us the gear nor tell us exactly what they do. For the same reasons we try to protect our intellectual property they are doing the same and want the revenue from us. If we knew what they did I could get a gear made a save lots of $$. We sent them a motor and they did oiling tests and started playing with a front cover and oil pump to see what they could do to increase the volume of oil while still maintaining enough pressure. They accomplished it and we have been very happy with the results. While I am sure we could dissect it and recreate it we have no real need to do that to cut them out of the deal.

 

[labontecsi]

I would assume it is not rocket science but our vendor will not sell us the gear nor tell us exactly what they do. For the same reasons we try to protect our intellectual property they are doing the same and want the revenue from us. If we knew what they did I could get a gear made a save lots of $$. We sent them a motor and they did oiling tests and started playing with a front cover and oil pump to see what they could do to increase the volume of oil while still maintaining enough pressure. They accomplished it and we have been very happy with the results. While I am sure we could dissect it and recreate it we have no real need to do that to cut them out of the deal.

WOW:congrats: :congrats: Business ethics....I thought the concept was dead. Congratulations, I hope this dialogue leads to a repair of H's name. I always wanted an H car, especially after a friend got a 3000GT VR4 H'd several years ago.

This is not a dig, it's good to see a business do the right thing from time to time. Especially when we are being trained to expect less and less from the people we give our money to...been to a fast food place in the last decade:dontknow: ?

Dave, again: :congrats:

 

[Silverback]

To John and Dave

Thank you both for your response regarding the oiling issue. I can fully understand both you and your vendor trying to protect their propiatary information.

I sure that John remembers me, as I was one of his harshest critics when some of his dealings were going on with our members. And it was not limited to just Walt. Others also had some bad experiences.

And during those times, one of the things I mentioned was that John needed a good business manager to run things for him, and that he concentrate on the engineering/performance side of the business. Glad to see he has finally done so.

While you have taken a good first step, and taken some abuse for doing so, I wish you good luck. But it will take some time to remove the tarnish from John's name. And some will never forget, or forgive.

I personally will withhold judgement for a while. John did a lot of damage to the fence, and it's going to take a little longer than 2 days of positive posts to repair that fence.

Once again, good luck to you both.

 

[Whitesnake]

Speaking to the Techs about this I will give you the information we have and what we are doing to combat the problem. they believe it is caused by cavitation of the oil at speed. the more sustained load the car is under during high RPM the bigger the chance at failing. It has happened on Stock bottom ends and modified bottom ends and both times to me at speeds around 200mph.

For a gen 2 their is not much of a fix other than leaving the clearance on the #3 rod bearing on the loose side of acceptable clearance.

For Gen 3 we also do that but we also send our Oil Pump covers out to be modified. It involves modifying the cover and also having a special gear made.

I am sorry I can't give out the information on who we have do that because we also supply those covers to our competition and really have no desire to lose that profit stream. This is not a cheap process and retails for a little over $900

But that is what we do, and I would also recommend a rev limiter to a few hundred less RPM than the stock red line. You wont lose much power and it is a cheap insurance policy.

If anyone wants or needs this done I will be happy to arrange it as well as offer a discount to you to try to mend some fences.

Sorry I can't go into more detail but that is exactly how we try to combat it. is it fool proof no.....but does it help.....absolutely.

900 bucks is not alot of money to those that don't want to deal with the issue of #3!!

btw, WELCOME and good luck!

 

[K-80-123]

I read the threads before I created the account to see what can of worms I was stepping in. Unfortunately I can only control the present, but even in readings Walt's post I read at least he was trying to resolve it and have it shipped back again for the second time. The tech's John had at the time never had John's best interests at heart. I was telling John back then.

Of course I understand Walt's frustration by work promised not being done or being lied to also. I really think the situation was trying to be corrected and Walt, also understandably decided he didn't want to send it back.

Guys like I said none of this is trying to sway anyone, change anyone's mind or anything else. I was just responding to Seth's misleading post.

For the Record....Mikey I love you bro always.......What happened between John Hennessey and me is history and it is behind me.....I like John and still consider him a friend.....would I buy another car from him............YES......that might come as a shock to most of you but I think he has some really good people working for him.....and he has worked out most of the problems.......everyone can change.

Walt

 

[Silverback]

For the Record....Mikey I love you bro always.......What happened between John Hennessey and me is history and it is behind me.....I like John and still consider him a friend.....would I buy another car from him............YES......that might come as a shock to most of you but I think he has some really good people working for him.....and he has worked out most of the problems.......everyone can change.

Walt

And that folks is a gentleman with class. :congrats:

 

[Prof]

More like a Saint!

 

[John Hennessey]

For the Record....Mikey I love you bro always.......What happened between John Hennessey and me is history and it is behind me.....I like John and still consider him a friend.....would I buy another car from him............YES......that might come as a shock to most of you but I think he has some really good people working for him.....and he has worked out most of the problems.......everyone can change.

Walt

Thank you Walt, I really appreciate that. I readily admit that we had quality control problems on your truck that, at the time, we could not sort out with the guys we had in the shop at the time. We have since added more experienced techs in the shop who have really helped improve our overall product quality and performance.

I would be glad to help you any way that I can in the future. You are a great guy and a true gentleman. Speak to you soon.

John

 

[HaulinAsp]

For the Record....Mikey I love you bro always.......What happened between John Hennessey and me is history and it is behind me.....I like John and still consider him a friend.....would I buy another car from him............YES......that might come as a shock to most of you but I think he has some really good people working for him.....and he has worked out most of the problems.......everyone can change.

Walt

:congrats: :congrats:

 

[Hilgee]

I have been back and fourth PMing with Dave about what I learned and found as I got the truck apart and then back together. It seems they are on the right track. I brought up hardware concerns, aem system, weak injecters, etc and he said they have already put these fixes in there builds.

 

[HaulinAsp]

Nothing for nothing but I spoke to Dave once on the phone about this oiling issue and several pm's- he has been nothing but pleasant, and answered my questions and seemed quite helpful...