US Made

[Danko]

pirateman, It is NOT enough to complain about taxes. Look at who you voted for. Did they do your bidding? Did they represent your position politically? If not, DO SOMETHING about it!!!! Please remember there are more than two political parties. Not everyone on your ballot or mine wants to raise taxes and increase gov't's role in our lives. Bush called himself a conservative but increased the nat'l budget more than inflation (even before 9-11) and increased the size of gov't. That is NOT a conservative's actions. When I tell people I do not vote Republican or Democratic, they tell me I am wasting my vote. That is just what the Reps and Dems want you to think. I respond with; "As long as you choose the lesser of two evils, you end up with evils". I ask that the next time you go to vote, look at ALL the candidates that are asking for your support. Some of them may actually support you. ............ Meanwhile, as far as what is American and not, it is still fairly easy to find pretty much almost totally American vehicles. The Chev Equinox has a Chinese motor, a Japanese trans, and is made at a Japanese plant in Quebec. So? Don't buy one of those! There are still a lot of vehicles that have predominantly American parts made by Americans in America for American companies owned by American stockholders. I do not want to hear about Mexican wiring harnesses or Asian fasteners. The big stuff of many vehicles can be gotten American and our children are damned good reasons to consider that buying thought process.

 

[Silverback]

Deleted.

 

[Big Asp]

When I tell people I do not vote Republican or Democratic, they tell me I am wasting my vote. That is just what the Reps and Dems want you to think. I respond with; "As long as you choose the lesser of two evils, you end up with evils".

...and this kind of mentality gave us Bill Clinton (thank you Ross Perot). I don't vote Democtratic or Republican either. I vote for candidates who more closely reflect my own opinions and morals, and, who put their constituents ahead of party politics. There aren't that many of them out there but they are still easier to find than a predominantly American made vehicle made by a predominantly American company. Whatever side of this argument you are on you would have a lot more credibility if you didn't use offensive terminology.

The big stuff of many vehicles can be gotten American and our children are damned good reasons to consider that buying thought process.

Are you talking about the children of the American workers who assemble the Tundra or the children of the Mexican workers who assembled our SRT-10s?

 

[Prof]

If Europeans and Asians took the approach of only purchasing their domestic products, we would be in a much more terrible economic condition that we are currently. I also admire national loyalty but I think it is mostly emotion these days it simply does not make economic sense.

Like it or not we are truly in a global economy. And many will attest to the fact that we are not at the top of the cycle, and may not be in the foreseeable future.

 

[Danko]

But Europeans and Asians DO pretty much only buy their own stuff and we ARE in a terrible economic condition! That is why we have the $60 billion plus monthly imbalance of trade. You need to educate yourself better! It is NOT a global economy when we are the only country acting like it is. Explain why Koreans sell over 700,000 vehicles here per year and only buy 5,000 of ours. Explain why the JapANESE buy JapANESE (not I no longer use the abbreviation). Go ahead. Asp's comment shows he has no kids or shouldn't have any.

 

[Prof]

My point is that if the Koreans don't buy those 5000 we are even worse off. Yes we have a huge trade deficit, and if those that are currently buying our exports take the approach as voiced above (I will only buy domestic) they can bring us to our knees...our economy will be even worse than it is now.

The US does not have a trade strategy...if you think that 700,000 Korean cars is huge wait until the latest trade agreements with Korea start to kick in...the 700k will be a pittance compared to what they will be able to sell under the latest agreements. Both countries are reducing tariffs to optimize what they think is the best position...our position is so weak and short sighted...it may well be that GM will not even be the second biggest seller, they may slip behind the Japanese and the Koreans.

 

[Silverback]

But Europeans and Asians DO pretty much only buy their own stuff and we ARE in a terrible economic condition! That is why we have the $60 billion plus monthly imbalance of trade. You need to educate yourself better! It is NOT a global economy when we are the only country acting like it is. Explain why Koreans sell over 700,000 vehicles here per year and only buy 5,000 of ours. Explain why the JapANESE buy JapANESE (not I no longer use the abbreviation). Go ahead. Asp's comment shows he has no kids or shouldn't have any.

You just don't learn or give up do you. You were doing pretty well, until you had to stir the shit with your comments regarding spelling out "JapANESE", but even then you have to highlight it.

Then you have to start in on Phil, who in my opinion has more integrity in what he flushes down the toilet than you have in your entire being. Phil has a wonderful family, and is highly respected by the older members of this site. A lot of the newer members do not really know Phil that well as he is currently in Korea and does not get to join us that often.

It's funny that you mention that Phil should not have any kids. Phil is the type of person that teaches love and understanding of others. You on the other hand should be neutered and prevented from having offspring so you can not spread your hate and bigotry to young impressional minds.


I know Bob. You are going to delete this, but I had to defend Phil.

 

[KINGMADE]

But Europeans and Asians DO pretty much only buy their own stuff and we ARE in a terrible economic condition! That is why we have the $60 billion plus monthly imbalance of trade. You need to educate yourself better! It is NOT a global economy when we are the only country acting like it is. Explain why Koreans sell over 700,000 vehicles here per year and only buy 5,000 of ours. Explain why the JapANESE buy JapANESE (not I no longer use the abbreviation). Go ahead. Asp's comment shows he has no kids or shouldn't have any.

Umm Danko... The korean thing was explained earlier. The microsoft xbox has a Japan market... not as big as sony, but not small either... I guess everything in your house has a MADE IN USA sticker on it right? Come one man... open your eyes. Ask lenders why we are in a terrible economic condition. I catch so much shit on youtube for my racing video's from dodge owners and it just makes me laugh, becuase 90% of those people don't know how it works.. or that most drive cars that are less American made than mine. I am not calling dodge owners ignorant, I think most of the people in the US are ignorant, and living in the past. My .02

 

[Big Asp]

Hey Silver, thanks for watching my back. You da man..., er..., ape! :rock:

Have you ever noticed that when someone has nothing substantial to offer in a discussion they often resort to the “I-know-you-are-but-what-am-I?â€￾ name calling method of debate? Doesn’t it tend to make them seem much smarter and lends so much more credibility to their argument?

Mr. Danko, I explained earlier in post number 17 of this thread why quoting the numbers you did is misleading when talking about the deficit between the amount of Korean cars sold in the US and the amount of American cars sold in Korea. I explained that the vast majority of the South Korean population live in large metropolitan areas. For example, there are roughly 15 million people in Seoul in about the same geographical area of a city like San Diego. That's almost 15 times the population density. It's very crowded. Just like in big, eastern cities in the US, many of the Koreans don’t own cars. Instead, they use public transportation. The subway in Seoul is one of the best and busiest in the world. So, the percentage of the South Korean population who own their own cars is only a fraction of that in the US. Simply put, there is not an unlimited market for personal cars here in South Korea like there is in the US where many households actually own more than one. In other words, as far as Korean cars are concerned, the numbers you quoted don't really support your position. The fact that 5,000 US cars were sold here is significant. As I stated earlier, to own a US made car here is a status symbol. It is not uncommon to see PT Cruisers, 300Cs, Chrysler vans and an occasional Jeep roaming the streets of Seoul.

Now, about the “childrenâ€￾ thing. What was it I wrote that offended you? I simply asked a legitimate question where, instead of answering, you came back with a weak, 6th grade mentality personal attack. And by the way, Mr. Danko, it’s Big Asp to you, so there! :aetsch:

 

[Prof]

Have you ever noticed that when someone has nothing substantial to offer in a discussion they often resort to the “I-know-you-are-but-what-am-I?â€￾ name calling method of debate? Doesn’t it tend to make them seem much smarter and lends so much more credibility to their argument?

Its called Ad Hominem, from the Nizkor Project:

Fallacy: Ad Hominem

Description of Ad Hominem

Translated from Latin to English, "Ad Hominem" means "against the man" or "against the person."

An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument. Typically, this fallacy involves two steps. First, an attack against the character of person making the claim, her circumstances, or her actions is made (or the character, circumstances, or actions of the person reporting the claim). Second, this attack is taken to be evidence against the claim or argument the person in question is making (or presenting). This type of "argument" has the following form:

1. Person A makes claim X.
2. Person B makes an attack on person A.
3. Therefore A's claim is false.

The reason why an Ad Hominem (of any kind) is a fallacy is that the character, circumstances, or actions of a person do not (in most cases) have a bearing on the truth or falsity of the claim being made (or the quality of the argument being made).
Example of Ad Hominem

1. Bill: "I believe that abortion is morally wrong."
Dave: "Of course you would say that, you're a priest."
Bill: "What about the arguments I gave to support my position?"
Dave: "Those don't count. Like I said, you're a priest, so you have to say that abortion is wrong. Further, you are just a lackey to the Pope, so I can't believe what you say."

Or like the comment: "You need to educate yourself better."

 

[mopower1958]

Looks like Nissan will be moving the TITAN assembly to Mexico in 3 years,they are presently built in Mississippi, they are moving one of the car lines back to Japan for assembly, and are merging with Dodge so they can build a heavy duty truck and a van similar to a sprinter,both to be assembled at the Canton,Ms. facility. They have also cut hours at the Mississippi plant due to low demand. I do not work there but several of my customers who drive Dodge and Ford diesels do.

 

[Danko]

..and the U.S. dollar is now worth a dime and the A-RABs and oil companies and Bush get blamed...... not the U.S. public schools. Yeah, 5,000 vs. over 700,000. That is REAL significant.......... sad.............. But then it is a global economy............. duh?

 

[OCBob]

OK, I'm gonna say this one more time to be clear. Racist comments and terms are not acceptable here. That includes thinly veiled references, like those you have recently posted here Danko. If you want to do that, take it somewhere else.

I thought that maybe you were really going to make the effort to somehow fit in, looked that way for a minute, but I guess not. I might just be biker trash, but that doesn't mean I'm stupid. I can see right through you, just as others here can. I really did try to explain this to you and to extend to you an olive branch, so to speak, but I am over it. Next time it happens you will be gone, bottom line.

You are entitled to your opinions, just like everyone else here. But you will play by the rules, or you can go play somewhere else.

I have left the comments you made. I want everyone to have the opportunity to see what you are all about.

And as far as Phil is concerned, not only do I disagree with what you said about him, I would trust him with my kids anytime. And I'm not exactly the trusting sort. But I've had the chance to see what he is all about over the course of years, and I have to say that I respect him and consider him a man of honor. At this point I can't say the same about you.

Once more, just to be sure that you heard me. Clean it up or say your goodbyes.

 

[FastRam]

OCBob, thanks, I really didn't want the discussions to get out of hand. This issue is extremely complex and can carry with it a lot of emotion and opinions. Our leaders, who we have voted into office, past and present, have struggled with this topic and my hats off to anybody who has the right answer or strategy to deal with it. I have traveled, as part of my job, all over the world, and I can say that we as Americans (for the most part) are better off than most around the world. I have visited places where they still use donkeys and carts to get around and still live and survive in rather primitive conditions. That being said, I appreciate the comments posted and encourage all to voice their thoughts, concerns, or suggestions.

 

[bigike]

Being in Singapore for some time now I've seen some nice stuff, there is a CRX type Honda that is cool looking. But there is a FORD hatchback that is one of the coolest small car that I've seen.

This leads me to a point that someone else made. If GM and the like didn't do what I'm against the foreign companies doing in America, in other counties. Then they wouldn't be where they are today. And it makes me feel like a Hippocrate, but you know that I just don't mind being a Hippocrate in these types of situations.

I am the quintessential American, I don't believe that WE are better than anyone, but I do believe the everyone is better because of people like US. And I will support it when I can.

Danko, I made fun of you for the retard stance you made when you were selling your truck, and I will still if you still feel that way. But here you've said alot of good stuff. Don't let it get you down. (I haven't read everything)

AND for SOME of you that feel otherwise, understand this I and a MAN of integrity and truthfulness and I will never compromise myself for anything, I am truthful to my detriment sometimes................... Just thought I needed to add that. (I'm not a Hippocrate.........usually)

 

[bigike]

Being in Singapore for some time now I've seen some nice stuff, there is a CRX type Honda that is cool looking. But there is a FORD hatchback that is one of the coolest small car that I've seen.

This leads me to a point that someone else made. If GM and the like didn't do what I'm against the foreign companies doing in America, in other counties. Then they wouldn't be where they are today. And it makes me feel like a Hippocrate, but you know that I just don't mind being a Hippocrate in these types of situations.

I am the quintessential American, I don't believe that WE are better than anyone, but I do believe the everyone is better because of people like US. And I will support it when I can.

Danko, I made fun of you for the retard stance you made when you were selling your truck, and I will still if you still feel that way. But here you've said alot of good stuff. Don't let it get you down. (I haven't read everything)

 

[Venom Power]

WOW! I certainly didn't expect this thread to bring out plentiful insights and information about world economy along side typical VTCoA drama. Personally I believe our “patriotic” way of thinking is just wrong. American companies are not the only ones that helped build this nation. Also, it’s not like we totally build American cars in America anyway. But let me jump off of that because I'm sure it has been mentioned somewhere on this thread before. Besides, I’d rather base my post off of what I have been experiencing recently.

I’ve been in Norway for a week and I noticed a heck of a lot of American cars (mostly early model) running around. Just today I saw a red Viper GTS, a C5 Corvette and a Tahoe (all considered foreign cars on this continent). Throughout the past week I have spotted some well maintained 50’s, 60’s and 70’ American V8 powered cars. I was shocked since gas prices here in Norway are 12.50kr/liter on average (that translates to roughly $9.92/gal once you factor in today’s currency exchange and conversion from liters to gallons). Apparently they are owned and driven by Norwegians who would be considered “well off” due to oil money from North Sea oil reserve discoveries. Stavanger and surrounding areas are full of well off Norwegians, but this is not the case for the entire Norwegian population. Most are driving practical cars from Eastern countries with 1.4 liter engines as a way to cope with today’s energy costs (right now I have a car that could probably fit in the back of #1900). And this is just ONE country. Who in their right mind wouldn't want to save a buck (or euro, or krone, or pound, or peso..etc.)?

:bebored: What I am saying is American cars are considered a luxury or status symbols these days in other nations. It’s not something required by less fortunate working folks who seem to make up a greater part of the world population. Smaller cars have always met the needs of drivers around the world both economically and physically. The roads here and most parts of Europe are narrow and as I mentioned above the fuel costs are ridiculous. If Americans were building smaller, less thirsty cars way back in the early days of the oil embargo during the Nixon administration, then perhaps we would have that economical car reputation and done better with exporting more vehicles to other parts of the world today. Sadly we are known as producers of “American muscle” icons. We stood idly by too long as the East produced and practically dominated the market of smaller economy sized cars. But who would have known right? We still built big and small block 8 cylinder cars. Then we tried to build V6 powered cars out of previously V8 powered platforms, even changing the blueprints to accomodate front wheel drive sideway applied engines, and didn’t make a dent in what the East accomplished. Even now I turn my nose up when American domestic companies produce something economical because it’s just not what I am used to. Perhaps if AMC cars stood the test of time we’d be more trustworthy of manufacturing efficient AND long lasting automobiles. How many Pintos and Gremlins do we see running around today? For that I cannot totally knock foreign built cars. Instead I will welcome them as they may help me squeeze more out of my ever decreasing value dollar at the pump.

Okay, my ranting is done. I just wanted to toss in my $0.02 worth.:dontknow:

 

[KINGMADE]

how many of you like calling for tech support and getting Mike from India on the phone... I mean come on. A lot of companies play us for stupid.

 

[Venom Power]

how many of you like calling for tech support and getting Mike from India on the phone... I mean come on. A lot of companies play us for stupid.

I can't resist....

I HATE THAT!!!!!!

Now I feel better.:vollkommenauf:

 

[Big Asp]

Thanks for the kind words, Bob. You should become a judge with your Solomonesque wisdom. It's not too late, a little law school in the evening... In fact, I think I just hit on a new TV series. We could call it... Biker Justice!

Oh, and 박사님 (Professor), great explanation. It cracked me up when he said you needed more education. Intellectually speaking, it's like you are driving your SRT-10 and he pulls up next to you in a Yugo, revving his engine and challenging you to a race.

Look, fellas, being patriotic is a great thing. When given a choice I always try to spend my money where it can help my fellow countrymen the most. I also try to buy from the local mom and pop establishments too. However, to blindly assume that a company is still "All American" when it really isn't plays right into the hands of the corporate spin doctors. Like I said before, modern multinational companies, including the big three car companies, consciously maintain the American brand image to take advantage of our "Buy American" bias. They are counting on our collective ignorance and often play us for saps. By doing a little homework we can be sure that the money we spend actually helps real Americans. We must be open enough to accept that things aren't always what they seem on the surface and sometimes its the company with a foreign name that does more good for our own people. In this case, from what I know right now, buying a Tundra probably spreads more dollars to more Americans than my purchase of my SRT-10 did.