Hillary's Health Care Proposal

Now, back to the Hillary Care ordeal...

Prof or Jeff, can you tell me out of the 47 some odd million uninsured, how many of those are illegal immigrants? And how many are legal citizens or legal immigrants that are qualified for MEDICAID and just haven't gone through the process yet?
 
lightningeater said:
Now, back to the Hillary Care ordeal...

Prof or Jeff, can you tell me out of the 47 some odd million uninsured, how many of those are illegal immigrants? And how many are legal citizens or legal immigrants that are qualified for MEDICAID and just haven't gone through the process yet?


Its a good question. I know that when the initial figure was constructed from the 2000 census (30 million then) that it was only citizens. I don't know what percentage of the estimated 47 million (Health Care Administration est.) are illegal. It would be a great freedom of information question...but if the number is still 30 million citizens, that is huge.
 
Wasn't there an estimate of 11 million illegals not to long ago.

Even if they were all poor and had no health care. That would leave an estimated 36 million citizens, and that is huge!
 
Of Course, this is an opinion


Editorial-NY Times
A Sobering Census Report: Bleak Findings on Health Insurance



Published: August 29, 2007
The Census Bureau’s report on the state of American health insurance was as disturbing as its statistics on poverty and income. The bureau reported a large increase in the number of Americans who lack health insurance, data that ought to send an unmistakable message to Washington: vigorous action is needed to reverse this alarming and intractable trend.

The number of uninsured Americans has been rising inexorably over the past six years as soaring health care costs have driven up premiums, employers have scaled back or eliminated health benefits and hard-pressed families have found themselves unable to purchase insurance at a reasonable price. Last year, the number of uninsured Americans increased by a daunting 2.2 million, from 44.8 million in 2005 to 47.0 million in 2006. That scotched any hope that the faltering economic recovery would help alleviate the problem.

The main reason for the upsurge in uninsured Americans is that employment-based coverage continued to deteriorate. Indeed, the number of full-time workers without health insurance rose from 20.8 million in 2005 to 22.0 million in 2006, presumably because either the employers or the workers or both found it too costly.

Sadly, the one area where the nation had made progress — reducing the number of uninsured children — took a turn for the worse. The number of uninsured children under 18 dropped steadily and significantly from 1999 to 2004, thanks largely to an expansion in coverage of low-income children under two programs operated jointly by the states and the federal government, Medicaid and the State Children’s Health Insurance Program. Then last year the number of uninsured children jumped more than 600,000 to reach 8.6 million. The main reason, advocacy groups say, is that access and funding for the low-income programs became tighter while employer coverage for dependents eroded.

The challenge to the White House and Congress seems clear. The upward trend in the number of uninsured needs to be reversed because many studies have shown that people who lack health insurance tend to forgo needed care until they become much sicker and go to expensive emergency rooms for treatment. That harms their health and drives up everyone’s health care costs.

The most immediate need is to reauthorize and expand the expiring State Children’s Health Insurance Program. It has already brought health coverage to millions of young Americans. It should be reinvigorated to bring coverage to many millions more.
 
A Second Opinion

Census Data on Growing Number of Uninsured Make Clear: National Health Care Strategy Is Needed

August 28, 2007
Author(s): Karen Davis, Ph.D.


Today, the Census Bureau released the latest data on the number of Americans without health insurance: in 2006, the number of uninsured rose to 47 million, from 44.8 million in 2005. This increase of 2.2 million—a jump of 5 percent—is the largest one-year increase in the number of uninsured since 2002. The ranks of the uninsured have grown 8.6 million since 2000—an increase of 22 percent.

The number of uninsured children rose to 8.7 million in 2006, up from 8.0 million in 2005—an increase of 9 percent in one year alone. If not for coverage through Medicaid and the State Children's Health Insurance Program (SCHIP), even more children would be without coverage. Since 2000, Medicaid and SCHIP provided an additional 5 million children with health coverage.

Nearly all uninsured adults are employed, and are increasingly likely to be in middle-class families. In 2006, an additional 1.3 million working adults were uninsured, of which 1.2 million worked full time. Both younger adults ages 25 to 34 and older adults ages 45 to 64 experienced major increases in the number of uninsured, a sign of the difficulty of obtaining health coverage in entry-level jobs and of staying covered as older adults experience serious health problems. Those particularly affected by the loss of coverage have incomes between $25,000 and $75,000. But even among those in families earning more than $75,000, the number of uninsured grew by 1.4 million.

Today's news is very disturbing. It means more Americans are going without needed care or facing crushing financial bills. Lack of insurance undermines the quality of care, as the uninsured fail to receive preventive care and cannot afford to take the medications that would keep their chronic conditions under control. And it undermines the health and productivity of our workforce and the strength of our economy.

One immediate action Congress could take is reauthorization of SCHIP, which is essential to prevent a reversal of the progress made through public health insurance programs over the last six years. While politicians may disagree about whether government or private markets are the solution to covering children and improving the quality of health care in the United States, health care leaders do not. In a recent Commonwealth Fund/Modern Healthcare survey, health care leaders said loud and clear that children up to 300 percent of the poverty level need to be covered by SCHIP and that the federal government can play a strong role in reforming health care overall.

The SCHIP reform bills currently in Congress are an unprecedented opportunity to expand coverage and improve the quality of care for all of us, but they are only a beginning. These proposals are no substitute for the comprehensive national strategy and leadership needed to ensure that all Americans have access to high-quality, safe, and efficient health care. In order to achieve that goal, Congress and the President should:
  • reauthorize SCHIP, covering most of the 8.7 million uninsured children—nearly all of whom are in families that cannot afford family health insurance premiums;
  • provide financial assistance to states willing to test innovative approaches, rather than cutting back on state funding;
  • begin serious examination of strategies for extending coverage to all Americans, building on platforms that work such as the Medicare program, employer coverage, and state initiatives;
  • create a national agenda to end the stark variation in health status and health care quality among states;
  • address payment reform to ensure that we are paying for quality, rather than quantity;
  • support medical homes, or primary care providers that ensure children and adults receive accessible, coordinated care, and that have been shown to reduce health disparities; and
  • support electronic medical records and the health information technology and infrastructure necessary to improve quality and efficiency.
With bold action on SCHIP and real national leadership, we can start on a path to reverse this trend—bringing down the number of uninsured and ensuring that all Americans have access to the health care they deserve.
davis_sig.gif


Related:

Publications
An Analysis of Leading Congressional Health Care Bills, 2005-2007: Part I Insurance Coverage
An Analysis of Leading Congressional Health Care Bills, 2005-2007: Part II, Quality and Efficiency
Health Care Opinion Leaders' Views on Priorities for SCHIP Reauthorization
Health Care Opinion Leaders' Views on the Quality and Safety of Health Care in the United States
Rite of Passage? Why Young Adults Become Uninsured and How New Policies Can Help
 
From what I've heard, and I guess I should do a little more investigation to be accurate but hear me out, of the 47 million, 12 to 15 million are illegals, and another 12 to 15 million are legal citizens or immigrants that qualify for MEDICAID. That leaves 15 to 20 million out of 300 or so million without healthcare.

Now, we need to know how many of the 15 to 20 could afford insurance if they gave something else up. Let's just say 20%. That leaves 13 to 16 million that cannot afford health insurance.

Please don't take these numbers as fact, I'm just hypothesizing here. But surely we could come up with a comprehensive plan to get 15 to 20 million people affordable, and I don't mean the same rate for everyone, insurance.

If it means raising the household income limits on MEDICARE a bit or subsidizing the rates that would be fine with me.

But I'm no politician. I just look at the logical solutions, in my opinion, to problems. Unfortunately, no politician will ever solve anything logically, Rep or Dem.

I just feel very strongly against taxing the hard working Americans even more just to give a hand out to some that don't absolutely need it, i.e. universal mandatory healthcare.

Don't mean to ramble, just throwing out a few of my ideas...
 
How can I be held responsible for someone else's choices in life?

I echo a previous post: Healthcare isn't always about people's choices. I gauruntee you people who end up with dibilitating painful diseases or having to go through chemotherapy or other regenerative treatments didn't CHOOSE that.

How do we deal with them? Write them off?
 
This is for lightningeater

I know your pretty set in your ways and that's OK I suppose

But here are 2 facts you really need to keep in mind.

1. It is against the law for hospitals to turn away patients based on the ability to pay.

2. Studies have shown that people who lack health insurance tend to forgo needed care until they become much sicker and go to expensive emergency rooms for treatment. That harms their health and drives up everyone’s health care costs.

You have stated a number of times that you will not pay for someone else's care. That may be, but your dead wrong. Cost is always passed on whether you or I like it or not. And that my friend is the same in all business. Loss will always be covered by the consumer. So unless we find a way to reduce the loss. The only people that will have good healthcare just might be the top 5% income makers and the rest of us won't have crap.

So i understand the with you at least, I'm just beating a dead horse. Some of us are looking for solutions, while others see no problem at all.

I'm sure in your given profession, there is only positive and there is no downside or things that could be done better.

Healthcare is an ever moving target. It never sleeps. It never takes a day off.

I guess for me the most disturbing thing is the simple dismissal of 13+ million people (your estimate) as unimportant and why should we even care. Well, I do and I always will. I could give you more reasons than you could count. I could give you facts and figures. I could show how one unimmunized kid can affect an entire school. But I won't.

I have come to the conclusion that the only way you will understand the importance of affordable healthcare for all, is to be in that position.

Good Luck

Good Day

God Bless
 
............................. :nurse: :nurse: :nurse:
 
Please understand that the concept of not refusing care is for the purpose of emergency stabilization...if you need care beyond that, a wallet biopsy will be performed first. In many instances arrangements can be made, but it does not come free. It can be financially devastating. If you cannot pay the rest of us pay, if it destroys you financially, which a huge percentage of bankruptcy's claim , go figure who pays...the rest of us.

It is easy to look at this issue superficially, but upon further investigation, the impact of lack of access to care (which kills thousands every year in this country) and the cost of care (which has spiraled out of control) are both adversely impacting everyone of us every day.
 
Prof, the problem as I see it, most think they "see" but they really are "feeling" and we are a very compassonate nation, BUT do you want socialism ?? There is a growing concern in this nation, everyone looks to the government NOW for everything !! Design better child car seats, government better pass new laws ! Passports, government get the system screwed up, they combine the Postal Service plus the feds, WOW a double wammy system that WILL fail ! Everyone jokes and makes fun of the government whatever they do, and they know that when the government sucks in a dollar and out the other end about 17 cents of productivity comes out ! Doesn't the government every year control flu-shots ?? Private industry has and will be the back bone of this great nation, I really enjoy how all the younger generation now wants the government to also raise their children, how about government child care !! The generation of "nerds" is now running this country, look at any local newspaper, when a trial is held for someone and the mass of people don't like the verdict ( although they elected the liberal legal staff) the "nerds" / yuppies start walks and the signing of petitions, They want justice served what they feel is more appropriate....look at the kid in Florida that got tasered....if you see the total process, HE resisted arrest, the police will NOT get down on the ground and wrestle with a person resisting arrest !! Now the new generation wants to "monday-morning " quarterback any little tidbit of "You-tube" crap, these new yuppies/nerds don't want our children to be offended so quit keeping score at games YET when these "bubble-protected" children grow up and enter the real work force, the minute a boss asks them to do something, they refuse and start the "my attorney can beat up your attorney !!" The world is spinning to a halt....my $.02
 
I have the same fear, after all I am a Republican...but I am also a humanist, (different from a socialist). I do not think that the government is the solution to all of the issues we face...I do think that government leadership (that is not the same as programs) is fundamental to our society moving forward, but that has been lacking for a long time. The proposal that Clinton has proposed is a private sector approach...please read it. So many assume that since it is a democrat proposing a solution that it is a new governmental program...then there is the anti-Hillary bias that inhibits investigation...or spurs it, depending on your point of view.

I do really believe in the power of private industry initiatives...but it requires good ideas, creativity and consensus...look at what private industry has achieved in the "motors" sector of our economy...health care concessions to labor have buried the industry...that is not the standard we need to follow. Labor for so long denied the concept of personal accountability and looked at health care as a cash cow for their membership...never did they acknowledge any accountability on the part of their membership.

That is private industry at its worst...an example of how government could have but didn't provide any leadership to assure long term viability of a system.

We are all to blame...and we will all have to be part of the solution...much the same as many of the problems we face. (Read: social security, the national debt, Medicare, military budgets, ad nauseam.
 
BriteCrawler said:
I echo a previous post: Healthcare isn't always about people's choices. I gauruntee you people who end up with dibilitating painful diseases or having to go through chemotherapy or other regenerative treatments didn't CHOOSE that.

How do we deal with them? Write them off?


I guess I didn't explain well enough. When I say how can I be responsible for other people's life choices, I mean as far as their ability to pay for insurance, not that they make a choice to get cancer...

I guess I'm coming off as an uncompassionate jerk since you can't hear the tone in my voice over the keyboard. Not the case at all. My grandmother is in a Long Term Acute Care facility as we speek after recovering from an abdominal aortic anurisym. She didn't ask for that either. She's 78, has MEDICARE, and she's been paying for a MEDICARE suplement insurance. (about $400 a month)

And I haven't said I won't pay for someone else's care either. Hell, I'm doing that right now.

All I've said is that there is a way different approach to all of this. In my opinion, Hillary's health care plan will never be a solution.

While there may not be any wording for adding a gov't department to administer the plan in her proposal, there will be. Her proposal in 1993 was 1400 some odd pages long. It included regional alliances and a Health Department to run it.

This one is 10 pages long...

This leads me to believe, IT'S TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE.
 
lightningeater said:
She's 78, has MEDICARE, and she's been paying for a MEDICARE suplement insurance. (about $400 a month)...

This one is 10 pages long...

This leads me to believe, IT'S TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE.


What proportion of a person's full time care is covered by $400 a month? Not even 20%...the rest of us are paying the other 80%.

The major criticism of the first health care proposal was too much detail...this time the detail has been left to congress to debate and arrive at concensus...the job of congress...which they do have a difficult time achieving.
 
She's been paying $400 a month for 40+ years with no other incidents. That adds up to around $200,000.

Yes we're paying for the MEDICARE portion, but we all agree that program is f'd up anyway.
 
Pastohio said:
Prof, the problem as I see it, most think they "see" but they really are "feeling" and we are a very compassonate nation, BUT do you want socialism ?? There is a growing concern in this nation, everyone looks to the government NOW for everything !! Design better child car seats, government better pass new laws ! Passports, government get the system screwed up, they combine the Postal Service plus the feds, WOW a double wammy system that WILL fail ! Everyone jokes and makes fun of the government whatever they do, and they know that when the government sucks in a dollar and out the other end about 17 cents of productivity comes out ! Doesn't the government every year control flu-shots ?? Private industry has and will be the back bone of this great nation, I really enjoy how all the younger generation now wants the government to also raise their children, how about government child care !! The generation of "nerds" is now running this country, look at any local newspaper, when a trial is held for someone and the mass of people don't like the verdict ( although they elected the liberal legal staff) the "nerds" / yuppies start walks and the signing of petitions, They want justice served what they feel is more appropriate....look at the kid in Florida that got tasered....if you see the total process, HE resisted arrest, the police will NOT get down on the ground and wrestle with a person resisting arrest !! Now the new generation wants to "monday-morning " quarterback any little tidbit of "You-tube" crap, these new yuppies/nerds don't want our children to be offended so quit keeping score at games YET when these "bubble-protected" children grow up and enter the real work force, the minute a boss asks them to do something, they refuse and start the "my attorney can beat up your attorney !!" The world is spinning to a halt....my $.02

If I was playing A.M. radio buzzword bingo, I think I could have just won the jackpot.
 
I thought this was interesting so I posted it..... I suspect that it will be torn to pieces by those who consider the source incredible or dismiss it as merely an opinion. But nonetheless, we are offering little more than opinions here anyway..... So, there you are.....

I've often hear from my UK friends that the British Healthcare System, commonly referred to as "The National Health" was a tangled morass of procrastination...... and I do agree with those who suspect that it is, as Barry Goldwater once said, "creeping socialism" .........My .02.

Here's the blurb:

http://www.burtonreport.com/InfHealthCare/BritNatHealthServ.htm

D
 
Ya know,

The more I ponder this issue, the more I'm struck by one very salient point....:

We have the very best doctors in the world here in the U.S.. They provide cutting edge scientific knowledge, procedures and technology along with rapid access for everyone in this country save for one group. THE INSURED.

HMOs and all their ilk are the biggest impediment to the healing arts that we have in this country..... Let's admit it... It isn't the quality of healthcare that's at fault. It's the greedy, corrupt douchebag insurance industry with it's nasty habit of prolonged review boards and perpetual denial of medical procedures that has destroyed the quality of our healthcare system.

What we really need is to police and punish HMO's who take our hard earned money and (in exchange) let patients die while the HMO decides whether or not to allow them the procedures they desperately need to survive.

Hello...........!!! It's not our healthcare....it's our fkn insurance companies who are to blame.

D
 

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