Geodrillers HP problems

[Geodriller]

Most of u know what is going on. for those that dont, my truck is not producing the hp we think it should.

I have a 2006 RC with the following modifications:

Belanger LTH w/ HFC and a Magnaflo Catback. I also have a 93 oct tune from Torrie. And a Volant CAI. pretty simple. when i went to the dyno my best run was 409/453. with the tune and 415/423 without the tune in. Most people can agree that i should be roughly 50hp above this and closer to 500 on the tq.

the truck runs great, idols good, and pulls hard. However when i put the headers and tune in together i felt no difference in the performance of the truck. becouse the truck is not taking to the mods it causes some of us to think i might have the dreded 2006 Camshaft issue. (that the timming was retarded so the truck could meet emmissions)


I have been talking with a couple guys here and also to a nearby Viper tech. the viper tech has been doing this a while and is employed full time in a very predominent Viper dealer around here. actually 3 years ago it was the biggest viper dealer on the east side of the Mississippi River in the country.

This gentelman told me that he has been talking to another Viper tech (not his "boss", but im assuming it is someone he looks up to as far as Viper Engine knowledge goes.)

He said that he can assure me that they have never heard of such issues and all trucks came out with the proper timing and hp. although he does understand how retarding the timing could happen, but, he also assures me that the truck would not run properly if the timming was too far of, and even if it is off, you would only gain 15-20 hp with fine tunning it.

So far i have found some ver knowledgable guys on here to comment on my problem,(like Stink, Ronnie, Venomous1, and Torrie, among others) and BTW...thanks guys.

Now i dont want to rush into a cam job, just simply dont have the money. But i do want the problem fixed, but i would like to eliminate some other possibilities first.

The tech thinks the first thing i need to do is a combustion chamber leackage test. $400 for labor and the time to do it. and that does not include parts i may need. but he doesnt think i will need anything as the gaskets should be reusable.
I also know Evanandretti had a power issue and found it was his clutch plate slipping. Is there a possibility this could be my problem??? if it was, i would notice a change in the mods and proly notice the slippage on the tach, right??? I put on my Venom Series Shifter from The Stink, and 3rd and 4th gear chatter through the shifter handle very loudly under WOT. all other noise i believe is cus its an aftermarket shifter.

So what do you guys think. should i do the leackage test? its only $400, and i would know for sure the walls and rings are all good and im not loosing power there. Any other ideas of things i should check. how would i know if its a tranny problem? drop the tranny and inspect the plates, is that the only real way.

I trust a couple people here more than i do my viper tech, so i am very interested to see what we can come up with with ur guys help.

All who do give me help, i will tell you know how much i really appreciate it.

Thanks
Chris

 

[oldcolt]

At our dyno day last weekend another 06 RC put down 389HP. Very strange that was where mine was before we did the cam job. Another 06 was there and put down 472HP...with a cam. I also put down 472HP after my cam swap. Evan's clutch may have been slipping, but until he puts it on the dyno, we won't know what he's got. I don't think you will get anyone from Dodge to admit there is an issue. It does seem strange that they are popping up though. I'm hoping 68Charger comes down to run his truck, so we can see what his is doing.

 

[yellow446]

Ok your numbers do look low , but i still dont think i would do that test what they told you to do . If your rings are not good you would be smoking , or burning oil .
So when you check your oils is it down at all or does it smoke at all .

 

[Geodriller]

Ok your numbers do look low , but i still dont think i would do that test what they told you to do . If your rings are not good you would be smoking , or burning oil .
So when you check your oils is it down at all or does it smoke at all .

my truck sat in the garage for 3 months straight and when the weather broke and i got it out i noticed 2 drops on the floor, but that was from the oil lines starting to leak. i also have never noticed any smoke out the tailpipe an never noticed a smell either. the exhaust always smells rich, but i only have 2 HFC and a maggie which u can see right through.

 

[Geodriller]

At our dyno day last weekend another 06 RC put down 389HP. Very strange that was where mine was before we did the cam job. Another 06 was there and put down 472HP...with a cam. I also put down 472HP after my cam swap. Evan's clutch may have been slipping, but until he puts it on the dyno, we won't know what he's got. I don't think you will get anyone from Dodge to admit there is an issue. It does seem strange that they are popping up though. I'm hoping 68Charger comes down to run his truck, so we can see what his is doing.

that IS strange. there is no other reason for the 06's to be so different is there. same engine and comnponents. has anyone everr dynoed high on the HP with a stock 06???

 

[oldcolt]

that IS strange. there is no other reason for the 06's to be so different is there. same engine and comnponents. has anyone everr dynoed high on the HP with a stock 06???

Not sure. There have been some that are normal. I would not spend the money for the leak down test either.

 

[JTS VENOM PERFORMANCE]

clutch test, go out on the hwy, about 30-40mph, put it in 4th or 5th, push the clutch in, rev it to say 5k or so, and jsut drop the clutch or jerk your foot off so it should instantly ingage, if the rpms instantly drop, clutch is good, if it slowly drops, clutch slipping
but the cam being retarded a little can have dramatic affects, find another viper tech

 

[Geodriller]

clutch test, go out on the hwy, about 30-40mph, put it in 4th or 5th, push the clutch in, rev it to say 5k or so, and jsut drop the clutch or jerk your foot off so it should instantly ingage, if the rpms instantly drop, clutch is good, if it slowly drops, clutch slipping
but the cam being retarded a little can have dramatic affects, find another viper tech

good deal, il do that clutch test.


as far as the tech goes. when i was talking to him about the job and a cam swap he told me that i need to find a high performance shop, that he did not want a project like that and is more farmiliar with stock repairs.

plus, i talked to oldcolt, and dyno numbers dont lie. it did not add up to what the tech was saying. as stated, i trust u stink, and some others here more than i do the viper tech.

do u think the leakage test would be usefull, looking like it wont.

also. what are some other things i can test to see if that is the prob. its not 100% that it is the cam thats the issue right?

 

[oldcolt]

Funny the Viper Tech didn't want to do a cam swap. He must know what a pain in the *ss it is to change a cam on these trucks!

 

[rare03srt10]

Defintily find another tech man. Timing will only change hp numbers 15-20 hp ?!?! yeah go ahead and advance the timing to the max and then retard the timing to the max and tell me how much power loss you fee hahahaa

 

[Geodriller]

Funny the Viper Tech didn't want to do a cam swap. He must know what a pain in the *ss it is to change a cam on these trucks!

haha, yeah, he wanted no part of that. i told him i wasnt sure if it was the cam or not. he was thinkin i was pretty much gunna drop it off and not get it till the problem was resolved. so it would more than likely be a big project. he made it sound like he didnt want that kind of weight on his shoulders. i think he should go get a job with KIA.

 

[JTS VENOM PERFORMANCE]

good deal, il do that clutch test.


as far as the tech goes. when i was talking to him about the job and a cam swap he told me that i need to find a high performance shop, that he did not want a project like that and is more farmiliar with stock repairs.

plus, i talked to oldcolt, and dyno numbers dont lie. it did not add up to what the tech was saying. as stated, i trust u stink, and some others here more than i do the viper tech.

do u think the leakage test would be usefull, looking like it wont.

also. what are some other things i can test to see if that is the prob. its not 100% that it is the cam thats the issue right?

sorry man, I cant help you on the forum, causes too much bs, folks say I dont work on my own engines, I dont get my hands greasy, and that I basically dont know what I am talking about, sorta like replacing a cam, easy deal to do but evidently to others its not , so it causes folks to get all upset and confrontational. Maybe things will change soon, when a couple of these builds get out, till then, I am not gonna get involved in any engine performance Bs to where folks can keep laying the low blows.
so I gave you how to check the clutch easily, other than that, I cant help ya, not here.

 

[Slitherbeast]

The CAM issue will bug every 06'owner until they either check it or better yet .... First mod for 06 owners is to replace and degree the new cam! :burnout:

 

[Geodriller]

sorry man, I cant help you on the forum, causes too much bs, folks say I dont work on my own engines, I dont get my hands greasy, and that I basically dont know what I am talking about, sorta like replacing a cam, easy deal to do but evidently to others its not , so it causes folks to get all upset and confrontational. Maybe things will change soon, when a couple of these builds get out, till then, I am not gonna get involved in any engine performance Bs to where folks can keep laying the low blows.
so I gave you how to check the clutch easily, other than that, I cant help ya, not here.

well that fuckin sucks. it is sad that it has come to this. a good dude cant even offer his advise becouse of others gettin all butthurt and shit and arguing like little fuckin girls. And us guys who seek the knowledge cant get it in a place that is supposed to be the best source for it.

That just really fuckin sucks. I understand your reasons Stink, and i can most certainly respect them. keep ur head up buddy, i have delt with u enough to know, you are honest, even if you think it will cost u some money or a sale you tell it like it is. And you dont just tell people what they want to hear so u can sell them stuff they dont even need. and that is an admirable trait to poses my friend, especial these days.

I realize these comments might turn people away from helping me with my issue, but hey, it is what it is. and that is just the way i feel.

 

[rare03srt10]

Stink has NEVER EVER pointed me in the wrong direction!! I definitly got mad respect for ya bud!

 

[evanandretti]

Well buddy I am unsure if that flywheel cured the truck. Been doing alot of driving to break it in. Got about 300 miles on it shifting as much as possible. Last time I took it out I did a couple pulls... And I know it grabs a hell of alot better.. I still don't think it's up to par. Especially when it's hot. Before I thought I just got used to the power... But when its warm she gets pretty lazy. I know they all do that, but if it's low on power to begin with shed really be noticeable when warm.

Geo when my flywheel is broken in I will copy those pulls you sent me... I think we are pretty close (when you were stock).

I will hopefully be dynoing soon, as of right now I don't have the numbers to prove anything.

I know one thing.... When I'm rolling in first gear in upper rpm range and I put her to the floor the thing should ping off the rev limiter instantly. Certain roads she will break loose, but nothing too exciting. I know my toyos don't grip that much.

Unfortuantly around here I have no one to go to for these motors, so I will be relying on you guys

 

[oldcolt]

Well buddy I am unsure if that flywheel cured the truck. Been doing alot of driving to break it in. Got about 300 miles on it shifting as much as possible. Last time I took it out I did a couple pulls... And I know it grabs a hell of alot better.. I still don't think it's up to par. Especially when it's hot. Before I thought I just got used to the power... But when its warm she gets pretty lazy. I know they all do that, but if it's low on power to begin with shed really be noticeable when warm.

Geo when my flywheel is broken in I will copy those pulls you sent me... I think we are pretty close (when you were stock).

I will hopefully be dynoing soon, as of right now I don't have the numbers to prove anything.

I know one thing.... When I'm rolling in first gear in upper rpm range and I put her to the floor the thing should ping off the rev limiter instantly. Certain roads she will break loose, but nothing too exciting. I know my toyos don't grip that much.

Unfortuantly around here I have no one to go to for these motors, so I will be relying on you guys

Come to Calgary Evan.....come to Calgary.

 

[evanandretti]

Someone said something about rings and oil consumption

I got frfno smoke out of the tail. Sometimes when I'm driving and the wind is just right it will smell like... Well you know when a civic passes you at 100mph or someone puts it to the floor and it just... Smells like someone passed you and had her wot? I'll get a whiff of that every now and then.

Also I am slightly overdue for an oil change and I am a down just a bit on oil. But read in another thread alot of guys use a bit of oil.

I guess my questions is, is that normal? Haha

And back to the thread I am going to change plugs and do a compression test. What's the best way to do it for most accurate results? And what's the magic number I'm looking for. And do I do it hot or after a short drive. Maybe that will tell me something.

 

[Geodriller]

The CAM issue will bug every 06'owner until they either check it or better yet .... First mod for 06 owners is to replace and degree the new cam! :burnout:

can the oem cam be reworked? or do u have to get a whole new cam? i am far from a mechanic so sorry if these are stupid questions.

but the timming/degree thing, is there a chance it can just be corrected or is the OEM cam junk???

 

[evanandretti]

Come to Calgary Evan.....come to Calgary.

Haha I would like to believe me. You come down here and we will tade trucks!!! What is steve's screen name that ran low numbers? And did you guys narrow that down to do the cam aswell?

And there's a thread in here about adjusting the cam, or timing or something. Is that possible or is a new cam the only option.