"Broke"s near stock SRT Ram beats me

[Blakewilder]

I am REALLY trying to justify this in my head AND ITS NOT WORKING! There is NO reason why that race shoulve even been CLOSE! A tune may be good for 60-80 HP on a good day. My Paxton fresh out of the gate dyno'd 572 rwhp....(LOW)...the best one out there is Patrick (for JUST a Paxton) at 650ish...78hp. After tuning and meth and some other stuff I got into the low 600's....(still low) but I dont have DC performance in my back yard. Still, even with the 572 tune in there my truck ran a 12.8. Altitude, maybe a few tenths or whatever but DAMN! 2 seconds worth? I dunno....and Im 500 lbs heavier.

 

[Dave T(BADVENM)]

I here ya blake. It still doesnt really register to me either. I'm still looking around for answers.

 

[silversrt]

Hey Dave,
Does your truck feel faster than when you had the Paxton on before the motor blew?

I here ya blake. It still doesnt really register to me either. I'm still looking around for answers.

 

[Blakewilder]

It HAS to...If he dyno's at 550 rwhp....its like 430 stock. But STILL...somethins wrong. Hey Dave did u see me get on them Woodhouse boys for ya? we gotch yer back...

 

[RedSrt007]

Dave, I'm not a tuner by any means, but I do have slight experience.; and computers is my life, so I've investigated our PCM programming fairly well The split second is a fairly complex if you create a custom tune via purple wire off the box. Stock it comes as a 3d map using RPM and Vac as its main source of tune. Table A isn't used in these truck from Paxton, but B is used from the pulling of timing, so I'm wondering what your programing numbers are like.

How are your pumps?
is your 'set' pump turning on @ -4 inches of mercury?
is your adjustable turning on @ 1.5?

What are your boost levels, and at what RPM? Do you have your split second program on file? if so, I would like to look at it...

These trucks LOVE boost, and even the slightest amount of boost (3-4psi) will give you incredible amounts of torque due to the displacement. As an example...mine at 3psi which is about 3k rpm, makes over 520tq at the wheels and 300HP and skyrockets from there. I max out at about 7.83psi to be safe, which yields my current results.

Even at 'low boost' you should be putting some decent numbers to the wheels, something definitely isn't right.

Do you have a wideband? if so, what are your numbers @ WOT through the RPM range? Are you suffering with a MAJOR case of heatsoak?..something isn't right, but its hard to diagnose it over the net...

-Red

 

[Blakewilder]

Good idea....what were your coolant temps when u ran? if they were over 205 then u were in HOT MODE....50-70 hp loss instantly. I would decide if u wanna keep the truck, and if u do then send it to DC perf and have Chris Tune it...it will be fixed quick!

 

[Viper7777]

Dave, I'm not a tuner by any means, but I do have slight experience.; and computers is my life, so I've investigated our PCM programming fairly well The split second is a fairly complex if you create a custom tune via purple wire off the box. Stock it comes as a 3d map using RPM and Vac as its main source of tune. Table A isn't used in these truck from Paxton, but B is used from the pulling of timing, so I'm wondering what your programing numbers are like.

How are your pumps?
is your 'set' pump turning on @ -4 inches of mercury?
is your adjustable turning on @ 1.5?

What are your boost levels, and at what RPM? Do you have your split second program on file? if so, I would like to look at it...

These trucks LOVE boost, and even the slightest amount of boost (3-4psi) will give you incredible amounts of torque due to the displacement. As an example...mine at 3psi which is about 3k rpm, makes over 520tq at the wheels and 300HP and skyrockets from there. I max out at about 7.83psi to be safe, which yields my current results.

Even at 'low boost' you should be putting some decent numbers to the wheels, something definitely isn't right.

Do you have a wideband? if so, what are your numbers @ WOT through the RPM range? Are you suffering with a MAJOR case of heatsoak?..something isn't right, but its hard to diagnose it over the net...

-Red

Impressive my friend ,, we may have a new tuner on our hands lol

what software are you using on your laptop to capture the data ?

See i think the hp ratio gained from a paxton is low, compared to being 10cly, you can take a ls1 or ls2 at 8cly with comparable flow charastices, ie, cam heads, However at 8psi you can make that or more HP. Thats what i cant understand.

 

[Dave T(BADVENM)]

Ok, a co-worker and I ran some computer software that mimics are truck as close as possible. We did the tire diameter, hp/tq, drag coefficient, ground clearance, height, width you name it. Oh yah, we did 4.56 gears for broke and 4.11 for me.

Heres what it came up with for a temp of 87 degrees, 31% humidity and track elevation of 5860 feet. The first test we accidentally did my truck naturally aspirated but then did supercharged

Broke - 500hp and 525 [email protected] (his run was [email protected])
Me - 668hp and 678 tq...13.5@105mph (natural)
- [email protected] (supercharged)

So, after we put as much of the vehicle specs as we could as well as track elevation and temp/humidity, etc I should have won by at least a second and possibly 2. Ack!!

 

[Dave T(BADVENM)]

Good idea....what were your coolant temps when u ran? if they were over 205 then u were in HOT MODE....50-70 hp loss instantly. I would decide if u wanna keep the truck, and if u do then send it to DC perf and have Chris Tune it...it will be fixed quick!

Coolant temps were around 205-210 I believe, nothing out of the ordinary. Not sure about brokes but I wouldnt expect any variance since we sat in line and lined up together on our runs. I'll capture a pic of the timeslip and post it here in the next hour.

 

[OCBob]

It really makes no sense at all. If it was just your run alone, then the theory could include temp, humidity, altitude, wind, whatever you wanted to include. But since you guys ran head to head there is just no logical reason that you didn't leave him far behind. If I were you I would try it again, make sure that you get the same results. Just basic scientific protocol to take, you have to run the same series of tests/experiments more than once to come to any type of conclusion.

 

[Dave T(BADVENM)]

heres the timeslip...I was car #177 (left) and Broke was #178 (right) I've also added some additonal data from the original dyno pull after the "new" motor was installed. Perhaps theres something in the data that could help answer our questions.

 

[Nowwhat]

heres the timeslip...I was car #177 (left) and Broke was #178 (right)

matches........I like how it looks like you crumpled it up in anger

 

[Dave T(BADVENM)]

I've had it in my pocket for a few days. I was showing it to some fellow racer/car guys at work today.

 

[Nowwhat]

you can see by the data how important it is to stay above 5400 rpm during your shifts so you stay in the boost...

 

[Viper7777]

did you have that block sonic tested ? no , steam , water, antifreeze, oil anything like that leaking ?

bad spark plug, bad wires ?

bad rack in pion ?

ahhh hell i just throwing out stuff lol,

dont know bro, man thats rough. No worries though there is a reason for it if you cant find it now, it will show its head soon enough if other issues start happeing.

 

[Broke]

My temp. was running about 205 just before we lined up. Dave, if you need me to send Woodhouse a PM or something, let me know. How did you get that time slip smoothed out, the last time I saw it you had it all wadded up and stomping the crap out of it(lol) To be honest, Dave really maintained himself and displayed no anger at all. If I would have been in his shoes, I probably would have done something stupid like taking a sledge hammer to the Paxton. Hope everything with your truck gets resolved.

 

[Dave T(BADVENM)]

Things are status quo with the dealer. I do have an e-mail in to Dan at DC asking for his expertise. I've sent him the video and timeslip. I've also readvertised the truck on ebay. I dont know if something is or isnt wrong with the truck. It pulls hard around town and gets boost so I'm at a loss as to whats going on. I checked the intercooler fluid levels and it was full and circulating with the ignition key on. Once I turn the key off the fluid all but disappears from view.

 

[Dave T(BADVENM)]

Heres Dans idea of what is going on:

I think that our blower flash will take care of this. What I believe is happening is the function of what they call the "wide open throttle timer" programmed into the factory controller. It can really reek havoc on a SC Ram at the drag strip. The truck would make power on the dyno and in roll on acceleration would feel strong, but when you would run WOT through the first three gears it would start laying down in 3-5th. We confirmed this on the dyno by running it through the gears. What is happening is that during these power shifts the computer would delay full enrichment for up to three seconds. On a normal truck it is barely noticeable, but on a SC truck it kills the power big time. We remove this function on all our SC applications and make some other changes to improve the power on full throttle shifts.

Thanks Dan for the insight!!

 

[RedSrt007]

Heres Dans idea of what is going on:

I think that our blower flash will take care of this. What I believe is happening is the function of what they call the "wide open throttle timer" programmed into the factory controller. It can really reek havoc on a SC Ram at the drag strip. The truck would make power on the dyno and in roll on acceleration would feel strong, but when you would run WOT through the first three gears it would start laying down in 3-5th. We confirmed this on the dyno by running it through the gears. What is happening is that during these power shifts the computer would delay full enrichment for up to three seconds. On a normal truck it is barely noticeable, but on a SC truck it kills the power big time. We remove this function on all our SC applications and make some other changes to improve the power on full throttle shifts.

Thanks Dan for the insight!!

blake.. (read PM I sent ya)

 

[Dave T(BADVENM)]

If my truck doesnt sell on ebay in 6 days I plan on adding Dans flash. He's been great to deal with despite me not purchasing anything from him to date. I wanted to share his info in case anyone else either having or thinking of going a similar route can avoid the problems I have. I'd be curious (and I've asked Dan) how I can tell the difference between what I currently have and what his flash will do. I was thinking of doing some 0-80mph timed runs or something along that line.