Camshaft choosing "how to"

JTS VENOM PERFORMANCE

Active Member
Preferred Vendor
Joined
May 19, 2006
Messages
33,544
Reaction score
1
Location
SRT10 heaven
Figured we needed a thread to discuss the differences between camshafts, especially with some of the greatest knowledgable people we have on this forum:rock:

below is some definitions to get us started:boring:

but.......you can discuss what cam would be good for N/A, turbos, or superchargers,
and yes there is a venom edition camshaft comming out for the supercharged paxtons, Eddies will be the first to try it:rock:


LIFT: The cam's basic function is to open the valves. Lift refers to how far the valve is opened (or lifted) off its seat. A street performance cam will usually have between .450- and .550-inch lift. More lift can increase power, and increased lift without changing duration increases power without affecting the point of peak power on the rpm band. The rocker arms have a direct effect on lift because they don't have a 1:1 lever ratio. A cam that has .318 inch of lobe lift (that's how far it lifts the lifter) will open the valve .477 inch with 1.5:1 rocker arms (.318 x 1.5 = .477) and .508 inch with 1.6:1 rockers.

Generally, a stock engine will tolerate .500-inch lift before the valves hit the pistons or the valvesprings hit coil bind, but any time lift is increased, these clearances should be checked.


DURATION: Duration is how long the cam holds the valves open. It's expressed in degrees of crankshaft rotation (remember, the cam rotates at half the speed of the crank). A 280-degree-duration cam holds the valves open longer than a 260-degree-duration cam. Holding the valves open longer allows more air and fuel into the engine and also allows more to get out through the exhaust. Longer duration (higher number) improves top-end power but almost always sacrifices low-end torque. Lower duration improves low-end torque and makes the car idle better, but it limits top-end power, and you can get only so much valve lift with a short duration cam due to the rate-of-lift limitations of the lifter. Roller cams, which we'll discuss below, have the advantage of allowing high rates of lift with relatively short duration.

The confusing thing about duration is the difference between "advertised" and "at .050-lift" duration. At .050-lift duration is measured from the point where the cam moves the lifter up .050 inch until .050 inch before the lifter is all the way back down. Most cam manufacturers differ in where they start and finish measuring for advertised duration. Some start at .004-inch lift, some at .008-inch and some measure it somewhere in between. That's why the .050-lift numbers are the best to go by. A 280 cam (advertised duration) from one manufacturer could actually have less at-.050 duration than a 278 cam from another, due to the different points at which the companies measure advertised duration.

LOBE SEPARATION ANGLE: This is the relationship between the centerlines of the intake and exhaust lobes. A 110-degree lobe separation angle means that the peak opening points of the intake and exhaust lobes are 110 degrees apart. This is ground into the cam and can't be changed without changing cams. Lobe separation angle is another way of expressing overlap, which is the term formerly used by cam manufacturers. Overlap is the amount of time that both valves are open in the same cylinder. When both valves are open at the same time, cylinder pressure drops. A cam with 106 degrees of lobe separation angle will have more overlap and a rougher idle than one with 112 degrees, but it'll usually make more midrange power.







This illustration shows what we mean by lobe separation angle: the angle between the intake and exhaust lobes. Notice that the lobe ramps overlap a bit. While the exhaust valve is closing, the intake is already opening. That's overlap. The narrower this angle (the lower the number), the more time both valves are open in the cylinder and therefore the more overlap
 

Attachments

  • 113_9604_cam02_z.jpg
    113_9604_cam02_z.jpg
    15.2 KB · Views: 79
Lets start with a Roe Supercharged application. What would be the best cam for a fully built motor, running 15 lbs of boost, fully ported heads with 1.7 rockers, and 9.5 to 1 compression?
 
blackviper said:
Lets start with a Roe Supercharged application. What would be the best cam for a fully built motor, running 15 lbs of boost, fully ported heads with 1.7 rockers, and 9.5 to 1 compression?

hey this one would work for me too.:D
 
blackviper said:
Lets start with a Roe Supercharged application. What would be the best cam for a fully built motor, running 15 lbs of boost, fully ported heads with 1.7 rockers, and 9.5 to 1 compression?

What the hell did you just say to me???????:eek: :p :p :p
 
blackviper said:
Lets start with a Roe Supercharged application. What would be the best cam for a fully built motor, running 15 lbs of boost, fully ported heads with 1.7 rockers, and 9.5 to 1 compression?

from what i have seen over the years the weight of the vehcile should be a factor in selectin a cam also??????
 
Can someone translate the following for me? I have a custom grind cam in my motor, engine build sheet says 351F/3112F HR 114 for the grind.

Some other info for comparison...
Intake center-line 116.5
Rockers 1.7
Camshaft max lift 600 w/ .050 to coil bind

This is a forced induction cam, not what I would use for NA or nitrous application.
 
Scrambler1 said:
Can someone translate the following for me? I have a custom grind cam in my motor, engine build sheet says 351F/3112F HR 114 for the grind.

Some other info for comparison...
Intake center-line 116.5
Rockers 1.7
Camshaft max lift 600 w/ .050 to coil bind

This is a forced induction cam, not what I would use for NA or nitrous application.

...not sure what you are asking...?? As far as 351F/3112F HR 114 goes, because it is a custom grind, it is tough to look it up anywhere.

Intake centerline is 116.5 degrees in your example. So if it is installed "on a" 116.5, it is neither advanced nor retarded. Intake Centerline is simply peak cam lift (intake) in relation to top dead center. Advancing it from there (116.5) will give you more cylinder pressure earlier at the expense of top-end power. And vice-versa.

Intake Centerline you can change through degreeing your cam with offset keys or an adjustable system. Lobe Separation Angle is ground in, and can't be changed. The numbers are often the same and there is sometimes confusion, between the two terms.

Rocker ratio- Lobe cam lift x 1.7 (rocker ratio)= actual lift. Example- .320" (lobe lift) x 1.7 = .544" (our o.e.m. cam)

The last one- I am assuming at .600" lift, you have .050" left before the valve spring coils run out of room and coil bind, or stack solid.

GENERALLY, you can run a considerably larger cam in a forced induction application than you could if the engine was N.A.

Match your cam TO YOUR HEADS, esp. in a N.A. application.

Heavy street vehicles- Have a cam ground for torque.
 
Last edited:
Thanks for the info. Specifics of cams is not something I much knowledge of. Yeah the cam was custom for my application and head work. Think I'll call the builder can get them to give me the true cam specs so that I have them.
 
Stinker said:
Overlap, need to discuss the effects of overlap for a supercharged cam;)

overlap and centerline:)

S/C--
Little overlap, lots of lift (within the capacity of the heads).
Lift/Duration favoring exhaust but not a long duration event on either I. or E.

Turbo--
Longer duration + more lift (Intake Only). (Duration is a Biggie!!)

LOTS of variables.... :(

That's what I'd do Troy!~

...what about centerline?.....:dontknow:

W.T.F.?? You're the one with the BIG POWER !!! :D
Soon you'll need an engine like mine, just to turn yours over!!

It's -30 here right now, so discuss away!!!

Rotten
 
Last edited:
rottenronnie said:
S/C--
Little overlap, lots of lift (within the capacity of the heads).
Lift/Duration favoring exhaust but not a long duration event on either I. or E.

Turbo--
Longer duration + more lift (Intake Only).

That's what I'd do Troy!~

...what about centerline?.....:dontknow:

W.T.F.?? You're the one with the BIG POWER !!! :D
Soon you'll need an engine like mine, just to turn yours over!!

It's -30 here right now, so discuss away!!!

Rotten


specs

dur @ 50 218 intake 224 exhaust lobe separation 114

valve lift 528 536


or

dur @ 50 242......248 lobe separation 114.
valve lift 510........528





which is for what?;)
 
Stinker said:
specs

dur @ 50 218 intake 224 exhaust lobe separation 114

valve lift 528 536


or

dur @ 50 242......248 lobe separation 114.
valve lift 510........528


which is for what?;)

(Is there a prize for the correct answer?):argh: :D

Need a cam card buddy!!!!! not enough info to make a good choice. And, even WITH that information, there ARE A LOT OF VARIABLES.
I always use the smallest cam I can get away with...if that helps...

Ronnie
 
Last edited:
gross valve lift 510 intake 528 exhaust

valve timing
@ .050 int 7 btdc 55 abdc
.........exh 58 bbdc 10 atdc

dur at .050 intake 242 exh 248
lobe lift .319intake .330 exh

separation 114
 
Stinker said:
gross valve lift 510 intake 528 exhaust

valve timing
@ .050 int 7 btdc 55 abdc
.........exh 58 bbdc 10 atdc

dur at .050 intake 242 exh 248
lobe lift .319intake .330 exh

separation 114

Stink,

I kinda/sorta opened a can of worms by responding. I DO NOT like interfering in somebody else's build. I have spent years on this stuff (and it sounds like you have too). My choices on my own engine, or a customers build, may or may not fit your choices, or the next guys. And, incomplete or inaccurate information exchange (either to or from) is dangerous.

But I pm'd ya some info on this one anyway... YOU OWE ME HUGE! ;)

Hope it helps ya out !

Rottenronnie

PS I don't really like either cam...:(
Cam choices: NOW you are getting personal !!
 
Last edited:
the intention of the thread is to give the guys some knowledge of picking and choosing a cam.

the paxton, or Roe, deserves its own special cam.

hence so does a naturally asperated motor, as well as a turbo.

if these guys can start understanding the different profiles and specifications of a cam, then the numbers will start to make sense.

and then they can understand "why" one cam , or one set up , actually works better than another.

a cam head configuration depends on alot of variables, but, also most are at a certain level.

such as a paxton, keeping the overlap 'tight" helps with the boost configuration.

many , just want a cam to "thump", but alot of times they dont know why, and after getting a thumping cam, there engine dont make the power it should or could, and do not understand why;)
 
Stinker said:
the intention of the thread is to give the guys some knowledge of picking and choosing a cam.

the paxton, or Roe, deserves its own special cam.

hence so does a naturally asperated motor, as well as a turbo.

if these guys can start understanding the different profiles and specifications of a cam, then the numbers will start to make sense.

and then they can understand "why" one cam , or one set up , actually works better than another.

a cam head configuration depends on alot of variables, but, also most are at a certain level.

such as a paxton, keeping the overlap 'tight" helps with the boost configuration.

many , just want a cam to "thump", but alot of times they dont know why, and after getting a thumping cam, there engine dont make the power it should or could, and do not understand why;)
Thats what I dont get where did the cam sensation come back from again:dontknow:
 
How would Rod/Stroke ratio effect cam selection? IE what changes to the cam would be made if the R/S ratio went from 1.75:1 to 1.50:1 or the other way around?
 
Cam Talk - Recommendations :

Stock Motor
ARH Headers - No Cats - Magnaflow Straight Through Muffler
HPP Ported Heads - Stock Chambers (surfaced .005), Comp 1.6 Stud Mounted Rockers, Isky Guides, Comp Pushrods, Comp Beehive Springs good to .625 lift
Ported (Port Matched) Intake Manifold In the Works
Cometic Stock Thickness Gaskets
Twin Disc Clutch/Lightened Flywheel

About 300lbs added in stereo
Who knows how much in the 24" Wheels

Any other questions please ask -

-Wade
 
pokeytemplar said:
How would Rod/Stroke ratio effect cam selection? IE what changes to the cam would be made if the R/S ratio went from 1.75:1 to 1.50:1 or the other way around?
Honestly Pokey, lets not get that technical yet;)

I hope to get some of these guys asking what works and why, and then we can get difficult.


i think ronnie is frozen:p









so question , hunting an answer





Why do you want less overlap for a supercharged engine?
 

Latest posts

Support Us

Become A Supporting Member Today!

Click Here For Details

Back
Top