does it have to be premium?

[sylverhawk]

hey all!
i havent been here in forever, ive actually been thinking of selling my truck, i love it but i hardly drive it now because of the stupid gas prices

but thats not why i am here, i was wondering if anyone ever runs theirs with regular gas? ive used it maybe 2 times, jsut because i was totally out and had to stop & the stations i was at didnt have the 93 grade, but does anyone use the 87 or 89 grade gas, or is that really bad for our trucks?

im also apparently needing to replace some head gaskets, grrr...and ball joints...anyone have any idea as to a price range? i did get a price for the gaskets from a dealer but i think they were on crack cause they arent blown, just slowly leaking but its to the point that i really do need to get it changed, wish i knew a good mechanic to go to around here...

 

[JeffBoyette]

To run 87 you need a tune. It will retard the timing, and richen up the mix a little to make it safe. 87 doesnt have the same detergents as the 93. $.20 more a gallon for 26 gallons, and your only talking about $5-$6 difference in your fill up price from empty a price difference of only 5%, or $20 per month if you fill up every week! If you cant swing that, you probably need to get rid of it anyway. The tune will cost $250-350 bucks It will take you 70 tanks or 20,020 miles before you even see a profit or savings from the investement of the tune. And thats ONLY if you get the exact same mileage from running the ****tier gas. It wont happen, you will get worse. Gas prices have been dropping for the 7th week straight (3-Apr) so keep your head up and dont make any rash decisions you may regret.

http://www.GasBuddy.com/gb_retail_price_chart.aspx?city1=USA Average&city2=&city3=&crude=n&tme=3&units=us

You shouldnt be driving it period if you need a head gasket anyway. You think gas prices are high now, wait to you are buying heads or rebuilding engine from hydrolock or torching! What are you saying is leaking?... are you missing coolant or getting water in your oil, have you checked your plugs, is it smoking? How many miles? The last thing you need with a "leaky" head gasket is to run ****ty gas and to have detonation. The extremely high cylinder pressures WILL finish it off.

Ball joints arent too bad. I paid $375 installed for my upper ball joints.

If i were you in your situation, i would take it to a dealership and try to get 18-20k for trade in.

 

[JeffBoyette]

People kill me driving up the road or avoiding a Top Tier gas station because it is $.05 more per gallon than the off brand crap. Sure if its Ethanol Free, then go for it. But if your stuck with ethanol go with the Top Tier. A nickle a gallon is 1.3% difference or $1.33 for an entire tank. Buy the good ****. There are more lesser known gas stations but if you buy from these retailers your getting the petroleum refinement and detergents that make the grade.

76
Phillips 66
Amoco
BP
Chevron
QuikTrip
Chevron
Conoco
Shell
Exxon
Sunoco
Kwik Trip/Kwik Star
Texaco
Mobil

If for whatever reason you have to buy crappy gas from a gas station with old tanks, worn out pumps, and not enough customers to move any volume to keep fresh fuel in the tank, get a bottle of Techron fuel Additive, seafoam etc.

 

[sylverhawk]

thats part of why i think they are on crack because even tho they said it was the head gaskets i dont think thats where its leaking, i will run low on oil (like lower than it should) if i dont keep up with it and add about a quart or 2 every month or 2. there is no water and oil mixing, there is no smoking and there is no loss of power , so thats why i have been driving still because i have kept up with it and made sure that it wasnt empty and that there was none of the water/oil mixing etc. i know its leaking somewhere otherwise i wouldnt have to add so much here and there but i need to find a competent mechanic instead of the idiots at my dodge dealer in this town!
as for the gas, ya i know its not that big of a price difference (mine holds 34 gallons by the way, lol) and i dont run the cheap crap in it , i really wanted to make sure that having it in there the time or 2 isnt going to kill it, the 10 dollar difference or whatever it is, really isnt that big of a price difference, i just wasnt sure ..really what the effects/consequenses of it is because i obviously know nothing about cars, lol!
i normally do go to the bigger stations, but i drive an hour each way for work and i sometimes let it run to low (i shouldnt) and when i run out on the country road that gets me back and forth i do have to put in the lower grade so i can get home,. i dont ever fill it, i will just put in the 20 bucks to get me home & then give it the good stuff again when i get there

ive thought of the trade..i dont know that i can brin myself to actually do it!

 

[JeffBoyette]

Yeah desperately need a tune for the lower octane, especially on a heavy QC. Its not worth the investement if your trying to save money, you will get worse gas mileage (negating any benefit), and its dirty fuel not good for the engine. Keep the premium in it. Depending on how many miles you have there are a few things you can do to improve your mileage. Really need to know more about your vehicle and mods, but a good filter on a CAI, fresh O2 sensors if your near 50k miles, replace or remove the cats if your over 60k miles, verify tire pressure is 38 psi, have a B&G fuel system clean performed on it, keep your foot out of the throttle etc. Just bear in mind, any investment made to improve mileage means you have to drive it for a LONG time before you pay off the bottom line and save any money.

They engines will burn some oil. Its the nature of the beast. I guess from the large displacements engines, high vacuum during decel, and large piston ring/cylinder surface area. You should check your oil level EVERY time you stop at the gas station. Its a good time killer while your waiting. Next time you change your oil use 15x50 and see if that helps. It sure helped mine.

Also if you are burning through a couple quarts of oil every 3000 miles, it might be a good idea to put a catch can on your truck to help reduce the amount of carbon buildup in your combustion chambers. Your engine will thank you.

 

[JeffBoyette]

It should also be noted that those with Manual transmissions will burn substantially more oil if they engine brake during decel vs putting in neutral and using the brakes to stop. Dont believe me? Try it for 3k miles and log how much oil you have to put in it. I did.

 

[cgperry]

I would definitely not risk the lower octane without the tune.

One of the first things my Viper tech told me after I bought the truck was never to run regular in it. At the time he was working on a Viper where the owner had done that and detonation had seriously damaged the motor. The short block was $18k and that didn't include any labor or other parts.

I guess east TN to SC is a helluva tow, but my Viper tech here is fantastic (Rick Hendrick Dodge). If you really can't get competent service up there I wouldn't hesitate to recommend sending the truck here.

 

[fursale]

While we are on the subject,what about food city premium 92 octane.I have been using it for a while with a 93 octane tune from Torrie and heard no knocking.Is their gas ok.They have fantastic friday's when premium sells for the same as mid grade,10 cents off.then if u buy food there you get another 15 cents off 20 gallons.I filled up yesterday for 1.31 a gallon,less than regular.:dontknow:

 

[JeffBoyette]

Octane is Octane. Octane is a measure of a fuels propensity to detonate. To be sold as that, it has to be tested as that. What sets one brand of fuel apart from the other, is the type and amount of detergents that is added to the fuel. Promotions at a retailer is that store breaking even or taking a loss on selling fuel, with the intent to bring you in, to buy other products with a higher profit margin. Chose a newer store that sells a high volume of fuel. Ethanol is corrosive to older tanks without liners and sediment and rust gets in the fuel and contaminates it. The filters in the system arent that great. Never stop while their is a fuel truck at the gas station. It will stir up sediment and emulsify any moisture that is present in the storage tanks.

Our engine are pretty sensitive to knock/detonation, and will retard timing and richen fuel mix as a temporary bandaid to prevent catastrophic engine failure. However boosted applications can go boom before these protective measures happen.

 

[RAMDUDE]

I don't care if I only had 5 bucks in my wallet, it would still be 93 going in.

 

[Yetti808]

I stoped at a valero and all they had was 92. I could tell it was different than 93. But I got just shy of a 1 mpg better. So I use that when I go on longer trips and don't plan on punching it. The lie o-meter showed a solid 1 mpg but calculated I got 8/10ths better.

 

[drummer22]

Is frys gas good or stay away?

 

[Midnight Runner]

93 and it runs great.

 

[JeffBoyette]

I stoped at a valero and all they had was 92. I could tell it was different than 93. But I got just shy of a 1 mpg better. So I use that when I go on longer trips and don't plan on punching it. The lie o-meter showed a solid 1 mpg but calculated I got 8/10ths better.

see my new thread on fuel logging software for your smartphone http://www.vtcoa.com/forums/f7/fuel-log-app-53175/#post1100910

A 8% decrease in mileage due to a decrease in 1 octane number is unlikely. Driving style, weather, windspeed/direction, barometric pressure, temperature, tire pressure, driving routes, elevation change, stoplights, etc could all combine to have that impact.

The available energy in 92 and 93 octane identical. It would be a stretch to to say a 10% decrease in mileage was due to the ECU retarding timing as a result of it seeing preignition and the inefficiency of combustion resulting in that timing retard. Even with the most aggressive tuning maps out there, 1 octane wouldnt cause that preigntion with highway/street driving.

The most likely culprit is the combination of the above stated variables and the possibility that the ethanol concentration was different between the 2 brands of fuel, and not a result of the octane number. Some areas of the US will have 91 octane instead of the 93 for their premium. It can contain up to 10% ethanol, some brands use more ethanol or less, but by law they must have that label (<10% Ethanol) on the pump. The variation is a result in the current market supply of corn based ethanol. The more ethanol concentration in the fuel, the less energy is available. If Torrie or another tuner creates a map that is fairly aggressive or for a boosted or nitrous setup, they will advise retuning for the 91 (if thats whats available in your region) for safety. E85 or 85% ethanol engines can be tuned VERY aggressively and put down big numbers, but require much more fuel and larger injectors to make that power reducing MPG

Again IMO the the 10% mpg variation you noticed, is possible and common, but it was not a result of the 1 octane.

 

[fursale]

While we are on the subject,what about food city premium 92 octane.I have been using it for a while with a 93 octane tune from Torrie and heard no knocking.Is their gas ok.They have fantastic friday's when premium sells for the same as mid grade,10 cents off.then if u buy food there you get another 15 cents off 20 gallons.I filled up yesterday for 1.31 a gallon,less than regular.:dontknow:

That was $3.31,not $1.31.It's a bitch getting old.

 

[ViperPete]

I get free regular gas at work (ethanol free fuel)

And I have been adding Octane booster to the tank.

Purrs like a kitten and the Butt-dyno does not feel any decipherable loss in power.

 

[Yetti808]

Didn't really blame it on the 1 octane I don't know exactly why so I threw in that it was valero 92 octane. And I did notice the gas didNOT have that real strong odor like some. It smelled like gas but just didn't have that strange kick like some gas has. I like gas and notice all sorts of little things about it. I have some vp mixes that I used when wrenching the AMA nationals that instead of rejetting for different elevation I would just mix gas different. Had to jet at Colorado that place is a hp killer!!

 

[JeffBoyette]

Didn't really blame it on the 1 octane I don't know exactly why so I threw in that it was valero 92 octane. And I did notice the gas didNOT have that real strong odor like some. It smelled like gas but just didn't have that strange kick like some gas has. I like gas and notice all sorts of little things about it. I have some vp mixes that I used when wrenching the AMA nationals that instead of rejetting for different elevation I would just mix gas different. Had to jet at Colorado that place is a hp killer!!

Here is a good article on Valero and cheap fuel
Will Cheaper Gas Hurt My Engine? | TrueCar Blog
"When one driver asked Valero (one of the largest refiners in the United States) about detergents in their gas, Valero replied, saying “We target 110% of the EPA requirement, but do not make claims that it is better… [Top Tier is usually about two-times the EPA requirements] We cannot justify the cost of Top Tier status, since only a small percentage of customers will actually benefit. Top Tier of any over-additized fuel only really benefits high-performance engines.”

 

[raymondwebb]

It makes me love my ride more knowing it takes premium.does this make me crazy?

 

[sylverhawk]

thanks for all the input, i am glad that i do keep the 93 in there and will have to remember to make sure i have enough before i hit that stretch of no gas stations in the boonies so i dont have to put that small amount of the lower octane in to make it home!

and it may be well worth the road trip for a decent mechanic to fix it right, i have a couple others here who have suggested me to people they work with who they say are great so when i will hopefully have it checked out again soon and make sure where the leak is coming from so i can fix it!