Dual sensor wideband?

Discussion in 'Performance Mods' started by Jumpingjoe628, Dec 29, 2019.

  1. Jumpingjoe628

    Jumpingjoe628 Full Access Member

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    Looking to cover both banks with one device logger. I really don’t need a gauge, just want to record runs and analyze the data. Can’t remember the brand I used on my old Vette but it was perfect for recoding runs and the handheld device was removable after I was done. Of course it had side pipes so access to remove and plug the bung was easy. Is the Innovate MTXL plus wideband what I’m looking for? And I guess just add another sensor? Not sure how that works. And I guess use the usb output to download or do I need yet another device to log the data? Any help will be appreaciated.
     
  2. Jumpingjoe628

    Jumpingjoe628 Full Access Member

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    Think I found what I had for my vette.
    https://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/lm2.php

    I had the single basic kit and was only reading the drivers side bank. It was a very helpful tool while sorting out the jets, float bowl height, power valve and metering block IFRs in the carb. Looking at the dual basic kit and that sucker is $500!!

    Still wondering what else is out there that the savvy tuner here recommends. It’s been at least 15 years since I had this model.
     
  3. VIPR PWR

    VIPR PWR Full Access Member

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    Check with jtsvp.com ,, jmbperformance ,
    I know jtsvp has the Srt face plates for gauges
     
  4. Jumpingjoe628

    Jumpingjoe628 Full Access Member

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    I’m going to try calling a few places today and explain what I’m looking at doing. There’s gotta be something basic and cheaper than what I’m seeing. Just need to log the data and easily retrieve it, don’t need a permanent gauge anywhere.

    But I am wondering if it’s that necessary to have readings from both banks. This is all for Torrie at Unleashed to work with and then maybe some final tweeting down the road after a cam install.
     
  5. rottenronnie

    rottenronnie Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    The last time I spoke with my Tuner, there was no GM/FORD equivalent data logger for our trucks.
    It's unlikely you will have much of a difference between the left bank of the engine and the right, so obtaining A/F from one side is better than nothing. As far as cam spec go, the ecu will tolerate 236 @ .050 and an LSA of 115 or so and that provides enough vacuum to be tunable. Our MAP (speed density) system is not as forgiving as the latest MAF systems so cam choice (off the shelf or custom) requires some restraint.
     
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  6. rottenronnie

    rottenronnie Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Your tuner can best advise what the specific limits are.
    I'm using a custom grind (with 11:1) that falls into the specs above. Really good torque, decent mileage, great throttle response and high rpm horsepower.
     
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  7. Jumpingjoe628

    Jumpingjoe628 Full Access Member

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    Torrie at Unleashed hooked me up with a good price on the Innovate DGL-1 dual wideband and HP Tuners MXL Plus tuner. I realize there’s probably minuscule differences between the banks but having data from both sides I can identify and pin point problems faster. Plus it should be better averaging both sides to optimize the tune. My truck will probably go through several stages of mods but probably stopping at a nice cam and valvetrane upgrade.
     
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  8. Jumpingjoe628

    Jumpingjoe628 Full Access Member

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    So is the 710R cam a bit much for relatively stock flowing heads even with a custom tuner file for the ECU? I assume that it’s probably going to have a weak vacuum signal at idle which will most likely throw a CEL, (tuner should be able to make the light go away, lol) but I’ll be doing the necessary valve spring, slow bleed lifters, push rod upgrades and thinner head gaskets too. Add Belanger longtubes, hi flow cats and magnaflow cat back it should be nice. Gonna massage the TB and port match everything while I’m in there. All pretty basic stuff, it just comes down to getting the cam to matching the equip.
     
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  9. Jumpingjoe628

    Jumpingjoe628 Full Access Member

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    I shouldn’t have to mess with stronger fuel pumps or bigger injectors for this set up either. And honestly I don’t think my pockets are deep enough to go forged at the moment, lol. But what’s that really for anyway? Racing all the time or going forced induction or nitrous. It’s not going north of 600 hp with what I have planned and I think I’ll really enjoy working on it step by step seeing the progress.
     
  10. rottenronnie

    rottenronnie Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Step by step is always the best way to determine what worked and what didn't.

    I catch hell for posting what I don't like or agree with, but it IS a public forum. :)

    The 710 has a rank idle and was originally ground as a boat cam, so I am told. On the dyno, they understanadably need to rev to make good horsepower power but are correspondingly low(er) for torque production (something needed in a truck) . In my opinion, more suited to a much lighter Viper car or at least a truck with a healthy boost in compression and maybe even gear.
    Customers over the years have asked for the sound of a ranker cam and don't care as much about power production, something I'm not into but they didn't seem to care.
    I try to optimize every component and discard something that goes against the grain.
    I'm done with my personal vehicle as far as mods go as I have what I want from it.
     
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  11. rottenronnie

    rottenronnie Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    I did go with bigger injectors and created a bit of a tuning challenge but I wanted an extra margin of safety. The fuel pump in the trucks is robust.
     
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  12. Jumpingjoe628

    Jumpingjoe628 Full Access Member

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    Sounds like we have similar taste then. I do like an aggressive sounding idle but honestly it’s sounds ok as it it. But if I’m going as far as to spend what they want for a cam I want the most out of it performance wise and don’t need any extra thump to the sound. I don’t think my comp cams software has any modern updated options for this engine since I last used it like 10 years ago but then again comps website doesn’t offer much for choices.

    What cam do you recommend? Or better put, what cam dimension limits should I be looking for? There’s an array of choices at our vendors sites and don’t want to over do it.
     
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  13. rottenronnie

    rottenronnie Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    I'm on my 4th grind as, regardless of others' recommendations, there is only one way to know for sure.
    Specs don't tell it all but my custom grind is a 234/236 @.050 on a 115 and 630 lift through 1.7 jesel roller rockers, good push rods and oem lifters.
    Engine has been zero-decked and uses custom pistons that mirror the heads (Striker) Combustion Chambers.
    11:1 pump gas.
    No tuning issues.
     
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  14. rottenronnie

    rottenronnie Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    These basic specs can't tell you lift at 100200,400 lift, etc. and
    Im not trying to hide anything at all, but those are the basics.

    Installed straight up.
     
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  15. rottenronnie

    rottenronnie Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Duration @ 100,200 NOT lift, but you know what I mean...
     
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  16. rottenronnie

    rottenronnie Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    I've intentionally kept things on the small side leaving the Intake Manifold un-ported, for example.

    The B&B primaries are a little larger than I'd like for this altitude, but at least they are longtubes.

    Strikers flow through .700" lift but by keeping duration, lift and overlap low, the cam encourages torque production over peak HP.
    I could very likely gain a higher peak HP number with something like the 710, but I'd kill the driveability/tunability and that particular number is of no interest to me.

    Although I've never bothered with anything other than a chassis-dyno and 1/4 mile times (particularly mph) as an indicator for my 5600 pounder', my flywheel horsepower is definitely in the 800 range which I'm happy with for a N.A. street engine with 4-cats.

    Zero-decking with high-swirl chambers provided an excellent burn pattern and there is no ignition advance penalty with 94 pump gas, the o.e.m. thermostat and a 1-range cooler spark plug.

    It took some time and effort to get it there but I finally have what I like,
    15 years later. :)
     
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  17. Jumpingjoe628

    Jumpingjoe628 Full Access Member

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    When you say “unported” you mean not even gasket matched? Cleaning up the edges for a smoother transition usually helps as long as material removal is kept to a minimum.

    I’m wondering at what lift do the stock heads flow through? This would help me in choosing a proper cam. And is it possible to to change the cam while engine is still in the truck? I really don’t want to pull it if I can help it.

    And since I plan on using a thinner head gasket is it crucial to measure what length pushrods to use afterwards or will stock length work?

    I know a lot of this stuff is kinda covered while browsing the vendors product descriptions but knowing what others have experimented with and what works better always helps.
     
  18. rottenronnie

    rottenronnie Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    I have ported the intakes by removing the tops, opening them up to the same size as the intake ports on the heads and giving the top of the manifold a 1/2" radius.
    No taper in the ports.
    After that work, the tops were welded back on and the intake was powder-coated.
    You will get a horsepower increase but it's all up top A lot of time and effort and a corresponding drop in torque at low to mid rpm.

    Yes you can change the cam in the truck with the motor installed. The trick is to be able to drop the pan enough to remove the oil pickup (bolted from the bottom) and it 90s into the timing chain cover. And that requires loosening the motor mounts and raising the engine enough to lower the pan. That timing cover isn't coming off until you deal with the pickup tube.

    The factory cam isn't all that bad.
    If you plan on porting the heads you can get a more aggressive cam profile to work with the porting.
    I certainly do NOT buy into the statement that more and more flow equals more and more horsepower. I've yet to see this work. So often, so many other changes were made to the engine, actual proof of the contribution of the heads alone is impossible to say. Yes the oem heads can be improved for more flow and with a camshaft to take advantage, they will definitely make more power. If you nose around the threads regarding NA you can do the math for yourself. Big reported increase in cfm on some Gen IV heads but I failed to see any increase in power. All I can say is "some" increase in cfm through porting will provide more power.
    The stock Gen III is 280 cfm @ 28"
    Stock push rods work fine with the newer (thinner) head gaskets.
     
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  19. rottenronnie

    rottenronnie Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Yes unported= not even gasket matched.
     
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  20. rottenronnie

    rottenronnie Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Gasket matching on a dry-flow manifold seems to yield minimum improvements (with the Gen III setup anyway) as the oem setup is pretty good. After all, it is a performance engine!


    Agreed, a nice smooth transition is best.

    Happy New Year
     
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