Failure of Lehman Bros.

Ram From Hell said:
Okay, okay, okay!

So things are bad, and everybody gets to take a bite of the shit sandwich that we've all made. What do we do now?

Following this thread (and others of its ilk), I read 99% B&M (bitching and moaning), and 1% solution. Why? Pissing about things is easier than solving them.

Turn this effin' thread around, and start working on some solutions here!:rock:

Bonus points if the suggestions are non-partisan.;)


Great point.

Get your house in order. No impulse buys. Get rid of debt. Get involved in local politics. Be sure that your elected representatives know who you are and what you expect of them on every issue. Pay as you go, no more living on credit.

Loose weight, quit smoking, get on a first name basis with your physician. Those three things have huge possible financial impact.

Pay yourself first, plan for retirement starting today.

Live within your means. Diversify your investments, make sure none of your customers can bring you down if they leave.

Sell high, by low.

I have women as my bankers, brokers, physician, dentist and lawyers. (My accountant is a guy...I have to review that...) They have to work harder than men to get ahead...if someone is dealing with my money and my health they need to be working hard.

Great redirection of this thread!
 
Prof said:
Great point.

Get your house in order. No impulse buys. Get rid of debt. Get involved in local politics. Be sure that your elected representatives know who you are and what you expect of them on every issue. Pay as you go, no more living on credit.

Loose weight, quit smoking, get on a first name basis with your physician. Those three things have huge possible financial impact.

Pay yourself first, plan for retirement starting today.

Live within your means. Diversify your investments, make sure none of your customers can bring you down if they leave.

Sell high, by low.


I have women as my bankers, brokers, physician, dentist and lawyers. (My accountant is a guy...I have to review that...) They have to work harder than men to get ahead...if someone is dealing with my money and my health they need to be working hard.

Great redirection of this thread!


Great advice Prof:congrats:
I would add don't depend on anyone else including the government to help you out.
 
Greed,greed,greed, plain and simple got the banks in this position. Lending money to poor folks who could not afford the home they purchased. Then just like every one in New Orleans after Katrina they expect a bail out. Blame George Bush all you want but the people of this nation are neck deep in credit problems due to THEIR mismanagement of money. How can a nation of people who are so deep in debt in their personal lives blame George Bush for everything? And before the Geritol/Viagra group jumps down my throat, I am not talking about anyone on this forum.
 
Personal accountability is a huge part of the problem. But I have to reiterate that the problems drag down lots of people who are/were trying to do the right thing...they are the true victims. The reason I blame the administration is that they were unwilling to put in reasonable limitations and hold people accountable for terrible risk taking and down right greed (your word and a very good one).
 
First off, get through today.

DON'T PANIC!

Get into a pragmatic state of mind, and away from an emotional one.

KEEP PAYING ATTENTION!

You're awake now, and need to stay that way. Keep an eye on things from this point forward.

FIRE ANY POLITICIAN WHO DOES NOT ACT IN THE PUBLIC'S BEST INTERESTS!

Throw them all out, if necessary. Once politicians get the message that re-election is impossible without producing results, we can begin to expect more from them.
 
When you are right, you are right.

That's one in a row for you David...a new record:p :p :p :D


Sorry, the straight line was just too much to pass up.

Roy
 
Prof said:
When you are right, you are right.

That's one in a row for you David...a new record:p :p :p :D


Sorry, the straight line was just too much to pass up.

Roy

Its ok Roy. You and Tim make my head hurt most of the time:D I am smart enough however,to make it so my kids can go to college and be smarter than their ole dad.
 
Why blame the US Government -- did they fund the cash Lehman lost? Did our President authorize a funding bill to support Lehman's investment interests or business practices to include droving out loans to those who had questionable credit history or the inability to pay when the loans came due, i.e. ARMs or buy downs? I believe, and if I am wrong so be it, Lehman made their business decisions on their own, with the blessings of their management, business goals and investors, without Government intervention.

How do we correct it? Good question, but if I were a stock holder in Lehman or any of the other lenders who have gone belly up, I would be looking at the CEO or the CFO of the company that marketed themselves as the cash windfall of the century. Unfortunately, what recourse do the investors have as they placed their trust in the corporate "braintrust" to do the right thing? Did they not vote at the the annual share holders meeting or submitted oppositions to the "plan", submit proxies (hoping the right decision was made) or simply did nothing to stop the potential bloodletting of their future investments?

Given today's nose dive of the dow, I hope everybody's investments don't take a shot in the (insert whatever body part fancies ya here) because of poor decision makers or over zealous marketing of the bankers who thought they knew...
 
mopower1958 said:
Its ok Roy. You and Tim make my head hurt most of the time:D I am smart enough however,to make it so my kids can go to college and be smarter than their ole dad.

You have taken care of priority number 1...be sure the future is going to be better than the past, for all of us.

Many never understand the importance of your sacrifice and accomplishment, in getting them to college. :rock: :rock: :rock:
 
Prof said:
You have taken care of priority number 1...be sure the future is going to be better than the past, for all of us.

Many never understand the importance of your sacrifice and accomplishment, in getting them to college. :rock: :rock: :rock:


You know the older I get the smarter my parents were after all:p
 
Strange isn't it? Parents have a way of getting in the way when we are young and turn up missing when we realize how right they really were.
 
This is what I have found in all the reading I've done today.....

This is not complete, but to the point of this thread


Lehman Brothers, Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac were all doing the same thing buying up mortgages from low income to middle class people. If everyone had paid, it would have been worth trillions.

In the late 90's the error of this was fought by a number of people in Washington, but the damage was already there and the forclosures were coming.....period

Other than completely forgiving the people who took out loans on homes they could never afford in the first place. This disaster was going to happen.

This was not a Democrat or Republican problem, this was a lender problem (yes I know Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac are government sponsored). These lenders could see the huge revenue increase that picking up these loans could be.

To blame either party for the failure is puzzling. I read several articles where members from both the Democrats and The Republicans were trying to deal with this issue in the 90's.

It comes down to money, how much and how fast. Fanny Mae had a remarkable upswing and became very powerful. Lehman Brothers was no different.

To lay the blame for these three at the feet of our government is just plain stupid.

I just may be the dumbest person on this board, because I have no funky letters to place behind my name other than a comma. But in just simply reading articles of the time brings a different light to what these idiots have done while chasing the housing boom. They got the money for the housing and now there paying for it. I don't remember at anytime having of seeing a representative from our government at any of the closings I did while buying a house. I don't remember in any of the documentation that I received a government seal of approval for either the buyer, seller, lender, broker or any one else.

Make all the excuses you what for these companies, but in my uneducated dumbass point of view, Lehman Brothers, Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac are all the result of there own actions.

Go ahead and bash me all you want on this one Roy. You have proved nothing to me....nothing. But the actions of these companies have

Thanks

Jeff
 
Jeff my point is that it is the purpose of government to recognize dangers, take actions to assure that those dangers do not crumble the foundation of our nation. Failure to recognize, failure to initiate action/or ignoring the possibility of catastrophic outcomes is the primary purpose of having a leader.

The Bush administration has hung its hat on the "War on Terrorism" (war is terrorism by the way) to protect who and what we are as a nation. The failure of the economic system is just as serious a threat. The administration did nothing, nothing to address the growing problems other than say...let the markets regulate themselves...that in my mind is not delegation it is abdication.
 
Now chew on this (Wa Post, March 23, 2007) and tell me that something couldn't have been done sooner, outside of government intervention:

Senators blame mortgage crisis on "neglect" by Fed, Greenspan

By David Cho and Nell Henderson

The Washington Post




U.S. Sen. Christopher Dodd, D-Conn., criticized former Fed chief Alan Greenspan.

Related

* Wall Street to Fed: Leave rates alone

WASHINGTON — Senators on Thursday accused the Federal Reserve and its former chairman, Alan Greenspan, of a "pattern of neglect" that fostered a crisis in the mortgage industry, which is putting more than 2 million families at risk of losing their homes.

Members of the Senate Banking Committee said the Fed had power to regulate risky lending practices but did not use it even as exotic mortgages for buyers with checkered credit helped drive up housing prices across the country.

The mortgage mess has rattled markets in recent weeks and spurred a broad reassessment of lending practices.

A top Fed officer defended the agency but acknowledged it could have stepped in earlier to curb risky lending.

"Given what we know now, yes, we could have done more sooner," Roger Cole, the Fed's director of banking supervision and regulation, told the committee between frequent senatorial interruptions.

Greenspan, in an interview later in the day, declined comment on whether the Fed was a lax regulator. But he disputed the senators' other allegations that he encouraged homebuyers to take on nontraditional mortgages.

At one point, committee Chairman Christopher Dodd, D-Conn., held up three large blue charts that demonstrated the Fed was aware as far back as 2003 that lending standards were deteriorating.

About the same time, Dodd said, Greenspan was touting adjustable-rate loans.

"American consumers might benefit if lenders provided greater mortgage product alternatives to the traditional fixed-rate mortgages," Dodd quoted Greenspan in a speech in early 2004.

Greenspan noted Thursday that he retreated from those remarks about two weeks after he made them, saying he meant only "a narrow segment" of households might benefit from nontraditional mortgages.
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Greenspan also took issue with Dodd's criticism. "To suggest the Fed was pushing subprime mortgages or even adjustable-rate mortgages is just not accurate," he said. "I was merely identifying an arithmetically obvious issue, that some mortgage borrowers, admittedly a very small segment, would do better with a different product."

In June 2004, the Fed embarked on a two-year campaign of raising short-term rates to tame inflation.

But Dodd said it also hit homeowners who had loans with adjustable rates. While interest rates were going up and questionable lending practices were spreading, federal banking regulators were not "protecting hardworking Americans from unscrupulous financial actors," he said.

"In my view, these actions set the conditions for the perfect storm that is sweeping over millions of American homeowners today," said Dodd, who is running for president.

Other senators joined the fray. Sen. Robert Menendez, D-N.J., criticized federal regulators for being "asleep at the switch." Sen. Jim Bunning, R-Ky., asked how questionable lending practices could have spread "under Greenspan's watch."

Dodd said he was undecided whether legislation was needed to regulate "subprime" mortgages, loans given to homebuyers with blemished credit. The market for these loans has exploded in recent years as banks profited by packaging these mortgages as bonds and selling them on Wall Street.

The expansion of the lending industry was part of a nationwide push for homeownership. President Bush made buying a home a cornerstone of his "Ownership Society." Homeownership is now at a record 69 percent.

Now the real-estate boom is unraveling, with about $160 billion in mortgages falling into delinquency, regulators said at Thursday's hearing.

They added that as many as 1 million homeowners will see higher rates to their adjustable loans over the next year.

Dodd said the Fed could have invoked a 1994 Home Ownership and Equity Protection Act, or HOEPA, which obligates the agency to stop unfair and deceptive lending practices by federally and state-regulated mortgage lenders.

The Fed writes the HOEPA regulations, which cover all lenders. But Fed officials said they have enforcement power only over the banks they regulate, not over state-licensed mortgage brokers and lenders.

Fed officials noted they used their HOEPA authority twice in 2001 to bar two lending practices as "unfair and deceptive."

The committee also heard testimony from executives of lenders, including Countrywide Financial, the nation's largest originator of mortgages. They warned senators to be careful of writing new laws that would make it difficult for poor people to buy a home.

Dodd, in response, urged the executives to cut down on loans to borrowers who have little documentation to prove their income and to more accurately evaluate how much debt people can afford.

Sen. Jack Reed, D-R.I., grilled the executives about mortgage brokers who practice predatory lending — pushing risky mortgages or refinances on unsuspecting people and charging high closing fees.

Sitting next to these corporate executives was an elderly woman from Philadelphia and a music teacher from Minnesota who testified they were victims of such scams and now cannot afford their mortgage payments.
 
You know Roy. I could answer your question, but I am an unarmed man in this world of higher learning. I was hoping that reading and hopefully comprehending would help me, but it never will.

So I'm going to bow out and let those with the initials after there name continue this battle. They caused it, they can fix it.

Jeff
 
Prof said:
Jeff my point is that it is the purpose of government to recognize dangers, take actions to assure that those dangers do not crumble the foundation of our nation. Failure to recognize, failure to initiate action/or ignoring the possibility of catastrophic outcomes is the primary purpose of having a leader.

The Bush administration has hung its hat on the "War on Terrorism" (war is terrorism by the way) to protect who and what we are as a nation. The failure of the economic system is just as serious a threat. The administration did nothing, nothing to address the growing problems other than say...let the markets regulate themselves...that in my mind is not delegation it is abdication.

Wow Roy, I do believe you have defined the Founding Fathers true intent of the phrase " Pomote The General Welfare":rock: :rock: :congrats: :congrats: :D
 
Django said:
Right, but if I remember correctly the Dow wasn't at 11,000 on Black Monday.

What...? Maybe half of that?

D

Once again D, check your facts:D

I for one remember this day well since I was a senior finance major at Virginia Tech that saw his career in capital markets get flushed down the toilet. The day started at 2200+ and lost around 500+, a one day loss of around 23%. Today I think was around a 4% loss....

For those that recall. Every market took a huge hit that day, starting in Hong Kong. Was an all around crap day for the world. All of you that are interested in markets should be looking at what happens tomorrow in Hong Kong and other global financial markets. Big losses will fuel a very crappy Tuesday opening for the DOW.....

I personally support Roy's comment about Bush being the CEO of the country. I am the CEO of my company and if my company does not meet my financial plan for the year, I am the one called in front of the lenders to discuss the problem, and I should be the only one, I would never blame my VPs or senior managers.

What ever happened to:
http://www.trumanlibrary.org/buckstop.htm

You want to be the president of this country.... Take the good with the bad and buck up when things aren't going so well and figure out how to fix it or address them. That is what I look for in a leader.

-jeff
 
ViperJeff said:
You know Roy. I could answer your question, but I am an unarmed man in this world of higher learning. I was hoping that reading and hopefully comprehending would help me, but it never will.

So I'm going to bow out and let those with the initials after there name continue this battle. They caused it, they can fix it.

Jeff


Jeff do not go! You are well into the battle, and if you get a little exhausted, welcome to the club. The object is not to overcome the opposing opinion, it is to strongly present your position. You are doing everyone a service by standing your ground and expressing your feelings. Your position is the majority opinion, and may well be correct.

We come to these threads to exchange views, it is not a win/lose affair. It is the exchange that is of benefit to all. You are a worthy debater and have my full respect...letters after the name not withstanding. Those letters won't buy a cup of coffee, and I refuse to use them out of respect for the real academics who do the primary research, I only do secondary research (read the primary stuff) and try to teach a little of it to my students, and from time to time my brothers and sisters here.
 

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