Heat Issue

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by shorty, Jul 4, 2019.

  1. shorty

    shorty Full Access Member

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    I try to keep my truck oil and water temp below 200. 210 at the outside. In the Texas heat (95-105) if I run at 60 mph (not happening) all is well but at 70 upward the temp rises to an unacceptable level.
    Question----will adding a row to the radiator help? Our tanks have two rows but will accept three. Thoughts???
     
  2. VIPR PWR

    VIPR PWR Full Access Member

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    What temp thermostat is in it ? Is the system clean and full of the right mix of anti freeze ? Is the belt slipping ,, belt conditions ?
    My thought is adding another row or larger radiator will still reach a certain temperature set by the thermostat so not sure it will do the trick ... I’m running a 170 degree thermostat and have a tune set for that temperature... in the heat of Florida summers I will still reach temps of 190 to 200 degrees and the fans will kick on .. if I’m not mistaken the factory thermostat is rated at 195 degrees .. changing to a 170 requires the tune that changes the fan switch on time for the lower temps .. otherwise the fans will kick on and run constantly at higher speeds ,, makes a funky noise also ...
     
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  3. shorty

    shorty Full Access Member

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    Running a 170 stat but the tune was not changed. I can be sitting in line at a DQ in 95 degree weather and the temp will ease up to 205. Also, on the highway when it rises above 200 I can turn off the air-conditioner and in 4-5 miles it will drop back to the 190-195 range.
     
  4. VIPR PWR

    VIPR PWR Full Access Member

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    Is the fan working ? Sounds like the fan is set to come on at the factory thermostat setting ..

    Who did your tune ,,, is it an SCT TUNER ? I would contact that person and see if the can send you the setting for the 170 thermostat.
    I know when I put my 170 in ,, the fan came on and never seemed to go off ,,, making a lot of noise ..
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2019
  5. shorty

    shorty Full Access Member

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    Fan seems to be working fine but I will attempt to see a what temp it comes on. Know the tune was not changed. Seems that if the fan comes on even at 195 it would still keep the temp from going to 210.
     
  6. rottenronnie

    rottenronnie Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    The A/C will definitely cause your cooling system to work harder.
    You will have to decide:
    • Your engine running cooler or:
    • YOU running cooler
    I don't know if this is a change in your engine/cooling system behavior (?), or it has always ran warm on hot days.
    Make sure you haven't done something recently to cause any air to enter the system. If so, open the bleeder for a while (cool engine) until steady liquid comes out.

    As you likely know, a cooler thermostat only OPENS at it's rated temperature so your thermostat will try to maintain 170 but that doesn't mean the cooling system itself is able to.

    If all else fails, move to Canada. ;)
     
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  7. shorty

    shorty Full Access Member

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    The A/C will definitely cause your cooling system to work harder.
    You will have to decide:
    • Your engine running cooler or:
    • YOU running cooler
    Hahaha, at 72 yr old I don't see me running any cooler. Old men get hot under the collar-way too often. I have been banned from commenting on news at FOX----says alot about my coolness.

    I checked and my tune is set at 170. I have always had these issues driving out in WT. In fact I can turn off the AC and turn on the heater and the temp goes down fast. That is why I though another row of coils would help as the heater only adds to the water cooling area/volume.
     
  8. rottenronnie

    rottenronnie Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    I can't say that I've tried that (or know anyone that has), but if turning on your heater drops the engine temp, the heater core is "just like" using another row of coils.

    It should work.
     
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  9. VIPR PWR

    VIPR PWR Full Access Member

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    Well there’s the answer to your problem ,, 72 years old running hot commenting on Fox News .. now the question is are you commenting to the young hottie news girls ... heck that adds at least 20 degrees in itself , as we all know old men become letches lol ,, cure put a couple cool packs in your pockets should help cool the thing down while your driving. Lol. Works for me anyway lol

    Turning on the heater you also have to consider the blower motor fan is adding additional cooling across the heater core .
     
  10. VIPR PWR

    VIPR PWR Full Access Member

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    I’m going to take mine out for a ride and verify what my temps are tomorrow as long as the sky here in Florida is clear .. it’s the hottest most humid time of year here . And I’ll leave the coolly paks at home for this test lol .
     
  11. VIPR PWR

    VIPR PWR Full Access Member

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    You haven’t added one of those smaller pulley’s have you .. the ones that change the rotation slowing down the accessories,, water pump , alternator etc ... I tried one years ago on ,y modified 340 duster .. bad mistake .. only good for racing , not daily driving .... at idle the temp would continue to rise and peg the needle just sitting at a red light or in heavy stop and go traffic ... it would go back to normal when I got moving again quickly. It also affected the alternator by slowing down the charging to much at under the above conditions ... they are for race only ! I removed it and went back to stock .. the so called power gained was minimal and wasn’t worth the risk for daily driving ..
    I did add a larger core radiator to the duster .. really didn’t notice any difference in the cooling back then ..

    What is the temp on your oil gauge ?
    Do you have a trans oil temp gauge ?
    Have you tried reloading the tune ... as we know ,, leaning out fuel mixtures , advancing timing Make more heat ..
     
  12. VIPR PWR

    VIPR PWR Full Access Member

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    Another thing I would do first is try new thermostat.. it may not be opening all the way restricting the coolant flow at higher speeds ...A lot cheaper than enlarging a radiator and finding out it didn’t solve your problem... also as Ronnie stated make sure there is no air in the system ,, bleed the air out !
    I would also still check into getting the tuner to set the fan turn on time to the 170 thermostat.. without doing that the fan comes on at the factory thermostat setting ..
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2019
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  13. CaptnCrash

    CaptnCrash Full Access Member

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    I'm in FL and it has been hot for sure. I'm running about 5'F higher right now but under 200. I run a 170 stat. I found over the years that if you sent your PCM out to have it tuned the fan will NOT work properly. I ended up making a temp controlled fan driver and used that to make things stay cool until I got an SCT tune and now it works just fine. Normally truck runs 180-185 ... I have a 6spd so no heat from the slush box to add to the problems.

    Output to the fan solenoid from the PCM is (sort of) PWM and gets more amplitude as demand grows.

    A couple of these 3rd party guys like Roe have an all electric fan module to replace the power steering pump powered hydraulic one. If your fan drive ever fails I'd suggest switching over. The hydraulic ones are known to fail.

    One more item. Water pumps on these can become problematic. On some, the impeller starts slipping on the shaft. You might want to have a look at that if everything else checks out good.

    --Ed
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2019
  14. Psycho1122

    Psycho1122 Full Access Member

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    Shorty;

    I have a few questions.... Are your Headers coated? Did you remove the grill block off panels? Are you STILL running 15W50 oil? Do you know your coolant mix ratio?

    1st. thing, a 170 thermostat does NOT make your overall package run cooler. It could cause the opposite. It will stay fully open for too long and not allow the coolant to stay in the radiator long enough to actually COOL the liquid before it leaves the radiator. These trucks utilize the Diesel Radiator core so it has MORE than enough capacity. I would address the basics first. Go back to the factory thermostat (this engine was "designed" to run in the 190-200 range), make a custom mix of coolant with as much de-ionized water as possible to eliminate ANY possibility of freezing. (Here in Arizona, I ran 70% de-ionized water / 30% dexcool with the appropriate amount of "water wetter" to condition the mix and maximize thermal transfer while liquid is in the radiator), an under-drive pulley did not effect my truck in AZ. It will actually "slow down" coolant flow a touch and promote heat exchange in the radiator. I would also suggest minimizing ANY additional heat generated by your engine. Is there any chance the tune is TOO lean in spots which would raise combustion temperature? Like I asked, did you have your headers coated? You want to contain the heat inside the exhaust. It will also help scavenging. Did you do anything to disturb diffusion cooling through your radiator and flow across your oil cooler/heat ex-changer? (grill block off's etc.?)

    PLEASE, get rid of the 15W50!! You are doing your engine no favors. Your not gaining protection and the parasitic conditions DO NOT remove enough heat from the bearings because FLOW is restricted. If you go to the factory fill 0W40 or even 0W30 like Rotten Ronnie, you will have cooler running oil AND additional power from the reduction of parasitic drag. PLUS, cooler oil will reduce thermal transfer at the oil cooler/ex-changer. NOTE: the oil cooler is actually there to maintain the oil temperature in the ideal range which happens to be the same as the coolant (190) ;) So, if you oil is too HOT, it will exchange that HEAT into the coolant at the ex-changer. There are superior oils that will provide ALL THE PROTECTION your engine needs in the list here...

    https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/2013/06/20/motor-oil-wear-test-ranking/

    Easy basics to start with BEFORE making big, expensive and most likely, Unnecessary component changes.

    Good Luck!!

    Cheers!
     
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  15. shorty

    shorty Full Access Member

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    Man, you are way over my head. I have 168,000 miles with 15X50 so kinda thought it may be working just fine. Also I thought our truck specs called for 15X50. I will go to 0X40 for the next change and see if the cooling is different. No to the coated headers. Do not know the cooling mixture---used the mixture that the banned guy recommended. Yes to the grill block panel removal. I even tried a double fan pushing air thru the front of the radiator and that did not help. Thanks again for the help.
     
  16. VIPR PWR

    VIPR PWR Full Access Member

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    Oil weight is based on the climate you live in ,, I’m not sure if changing it is going to do anything for the temps ,, I run the 15 50 and oil consumption went down ... that was after trying several different oils ,, 0 40 Mobil one ,,, royal purple 0 40 and the 15 50 .. I live in Florida hot climate ,,, you live in Texas hot climate . You’ve been using the 15 50 and have 168k miles on the truck .. something to be said for that considering I think you stated on another thread you have low oil consumption!
    The 0 is for colder climate and the 40 is for hotter climate .. I believe the 40 is sufficient for your climate and mine but the 0 is not needed there .... multi viscosity covers climate temperature ranges ... so 15 would be more than fine and 50 covers the hottest climate days ... up north in the cold would be different ..
     
  17. VIPR PWR

    VIPR PWR Full Access Member

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    I ran my truck today .. temps where not as high ,, damn rain and cloudy ... it ran 195 degrees and oil temp was around 185 to 190 degrees ... 170 thermostat in mine .. haven’t changed it for years ..
    50 50 mix on antifreeze..
    15 50 mobile one .
    Fan turn on was changed when I bought the SCT tuner .
    Grill baffles I put back on as they direct the air flow .
     
  18. Slitherbeast

    Slitherbeast Active Member Supporting Member

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    your fan cannot be kicking into high speed..... that is what I would confirm first.....
     
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  19. Psycho1122

    Psycho1122 Full Access Member

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    Too much misinformation here in this reply. The good news is that you retained your grill block off panels. VERY HUGE in many aspects of performance!! Oil weight however, is determined by the OEM based off engine clearances and DESIGNED oil FLOW for the engine. If your "package" is as you state, you have ALOT to gain. The original oil specified for these V10 engines was 10W30. Then, due to improvements in oil technology, went to 0W40 in 2005.
    Any engine will benefit from a decent synthetic and will run for many miles without much issue related to oiling. However, the M1 15W50 you both are running is too high in viscosity and WAY down on the wear protection list. It is #188 o_O

    I urge you both to read this BLOG ( https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/2013/06/20/motor-oil-wear-test-ranking/ ) and pick up some facts. Here is a snip-it from the blog that relates to this topic of engine heat....

    >>> "• Oil flow is what carries heat away from internal engine components. Those engine components are DIRECTLY oil cooled, but only IN-directly water cooled. And better flowing thinner oil will keep critical engine components cooler because it carries heat away faster than slower flowing thicker oil can. This is especially important with plain main and rod bearings, since the flow of oil through the bearings is what cools them. If you run thicker oil than needed, you will drive up engine component temps.

    Here are some comparison numbers from an 830 HP road race engine on the track:

    15W50 oil = 80 psi = 265* oil sump temperature

    5W20 oil = 65 psi = 240* oil sump temperature

    Here you can see how the thicker oil flowed more slowly through the bearings, thus getting hotter, driving up bearing temperatures and increasing sump temperatures. And the thinner oil flowed more freely and quickly through the bearings, thus cooling and lubricating them better than thicker oil, while also reducing sump temperatures."

    • Thicker oils DO NOT automatically provide better wear protection than thinner oils, as some people mistakenly believe. Extensive “dynamic wear testing under load” of approximately 200 motor oils, has shown that the base oil and its additive package “as a whole”, with the primary emphasis on the additive package, which is what contains the extreme pressure anti-wear components, is what determines an oil’s wear protection capability, NOT its viscosity. In fact, the test data has shown that 5W20 oils can provide INCREDIBLE wear protection with over 120,000 psi load carrying capability/film strength/shear resistance, while 15W50 oils can sometimes only provide UNDESIRABLE wear protection with less than 60,000 psi. So, DO NOT use thicker oil under the assumption that it can provide better wear protection for our engines, because that is simply NOT TRUE." <<<

    Just some serious things to consider...It's not that I think you're dumb, it's just that so much of what you know isn't true....:D

    Cheers!!
     
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  20. Psycho1122

    Psycho1122 Full Access Member

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    Shorty, mileage is not the issue unless you have not kept up on maintenance. GO BACK TO OEM THERMOSTAT and slow down flow through your radiator. Hot engine bay does NOT help your situation. Put the block off panels back on and regain "diffusion" cooling... (this is where the air SLOWS down across your radiator as it expands behind the block off's) thus extracting more heat over time. Get your headers coated or put the stock manifolds on. They retain more heat and flow VERY well. Put as much de-ionized water into your system as possible (70% or more, remember, "Straight water is the most thermally efficient coolant") and be sure to eliminate the possibility off freezing and/or corrosion. Here is a great read up on performance cooling.

    https://www.hotrod.com/articles/ccrp-0707-high-performance-cooling-system/

    The good news is, SRT did all the hard work for you. As the article states, "There are three basic parameters that determine cooling efficiency: radiator surface area, coolant speed through the system, and the amount of airflow through the radiator."

    Surface area? (CHECK), Coolant speed? (OEM Thermostat), Airflow through radiator? (Block off's and fan turn on speeds (2) at low road speed).

    Address these and your cooling issues will be a thing of the past. PLUS! you will gain overall performance.;)

    Good luck!!

    Cheers!
     
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