Oil Temp & Coolant Temp - Which Is More Important?

[Carlwalski]

Hmmmm, a little over my head lol but I do understand where you are coming from and what you are saying. Yes, I realise that the exchanger has 4 fittings, I was meaning you have 2 oil lines as-is and if you keep the exchanger and ADD and oil cooler, you already have 2 oil lines so how would that work exactly? The new oil cooler lines would have no where to go as the engine only has only 2 fittings and those are being taken up by the exchanger oil lines. Unless you somehow tap into those? I think I'm making sense lol? I might look at Sean turning my fan on sooner. He claimed up to 20hp loss by turning it on sooner so if it runs cooler around 170F because it's on earlier, I'd rather that for the sake of 10-20hp.

 

[Chuck B]

Hmmmm, a little over my head lol but I do understand where you are coming from and what you are saying. Yes, I realise that the exchanger has 4 fittings, I was meaning you have 2 oil lines as-is and if you keep the exchanger and ADD and oil cooler, you already have 2 oil lines so how would that work exactly? The new oil cooler lines would have no where to go as the engine only has only 2 fittings and those are being taken up by the exchanger oil lines. Unless you somehow tap into those? I think I'm making sense lol? I might look at Sean turning my fan on sooner. He claimed up to 20hp loss by turning it on sooner so if it runs cooler around 170F because it's on earlier, I'd rather that for the sake of 10-20hp.

You would run or tie in the cooler in series with the exchanger. Example: output line from engine to input fitting on exchanger. Output fitting on exchanger to input fitting on cooler. Output fitting on cooler to input line back to engine.

 

[Brat]

Bro.go with the sct tuner,the guy that did mine has my fans coming on sooner and the water temp doesnt go above 185 and the oil temp doesnt go above 175.and that is in florida where the summer temp.is 95.

 

[Da1Chief]

Totally Normal Carl... You could put a 170 Degree T-Stat in it and that would drop the Coolant some which in turn would drop the Oil Temp.

One thing though, it is my understanding that with our Aluminum engines, they actually like a Little Warmth to build the correct HP. Too cold or Too Hot will kill the HP. Somewhere around 185 - 210 should be about dead on for MAX HP. (Again this is my understanding... The Bigger Gear Heads here will have the definitive answer)

 

[VIPR PWR]

Are you saying that making the fan turn on sooner is a loss of HP... Why would this happen ? ---isn't the fan electric( no drag) ? or would the loss be due to cooler run temps ?....I'm confused :dontknow:

 

[Carlwalski]

Are you saying that making the fan turn on sooner is a loss of HP... Why would this happen ---isn't the fan electric( no drag) ? or would the loss be due to cooler run temps ?....I'm confused :dontknow:

Quote for Sean roe:


Carl, 190-200 is normal in low speed driving and idle where the fan is having to work.

I will explain how all this works.

1. When driving down the road, the air flows through the radiator at a rate faster than the fan pulls unless you really crank the fan up.
Your fan activates only when it gets above the preset point.

2. We spent time on the dyno and confirmed that we could lose up to 20 HP by driving the fan earlier and harder.

3. We determined an optimum point of temperature and fan activation point for the best HP and temperature.

4. If you want it on earlier, we can certainly do that for you, but it will be counter productive.

 

[Brat]

Are you saying that making the fan turn on sooner is a loss of HP... Why would this happen ? ---isn't the fan electric( no drag) ? or would the loss be due to cooler run temps ?....I'm confused :dontknow:

No Jim the fan runs off the power sterring pump.

 

[Carlwalski]

Totally Normal Carl... You could put a 170 Degree T-Stat in it and that would drop the Coolant some which in turn would drop the Oil Temp.

One thing though, it is my understanding that with our Aluminum engines, they actually like a Little Warmth to build the correct HP. Too cold or Too Hot will kill the HP. Somewhere around 185 - 210 should be about dead on for MAX HP. (Again this is my understanding... The Bigger Gear Heads here will have the definitive answer)

Thanks for another confirmation that my temp is OK/normal, gives me heaps of peace of mind. I already have the 170 t-stat. I've heard all it really does is take longer for the engine to heat up lol. At this stage I will run the truck with the oil gauge running and see what temps I get too. If it's around (hopefully below) the 200F mark I'll leave it as is and get Tony's oil lines and call it a day. If it's above 200F on both coolant and oil, I'll get Sean to engage my fan sooner. I guess I'm a bit of worry wart sometimes, while hotter temps may help hp, it just "feels" so wrong to run a vehicle around when it's hot. That begs the question, is 200F hot for our engines or aluminium engines in general??? :dontknow:

 

[Brat]

Quote for Sean roe:


Carl, 190-200 is normal in low speed driving and idle where the fan is having to work.

I will explain how all this works.

1. When driving down the road, the air flows through the radiator at a rate faster than the fan pulls unless you really crank the fan up.
Your fan activates only when it gets above the preset point.

2. We spent time on the dyno and confirmed that we could lose up to 20 HP by driving the fan earlier and harder.

3. We determined an optimum point of temperature and fan activation point for the best HP and temperature.

4. If you want it on earlier, we can certainly do that for you, but it will be counter productive.

Well I have never had the problems Sean says,my fan comes on earlier and I never have lost any hp even in 95 degree weather.my last dyno sheet was at 90 degrees out side temp.

 

[Carlwalski]

While I don't know for sure about 20hp I do know I'd prefer to either add electric type fan or better yet additional capacity of the radiator over using factory fan for additional cooling. Yes, exchanger has 4 fittings but remember 2 are for coolant (in/out) and 2 for oil (in/out). you would run the cooler in series with the exchanger. Knowing what the actual temps are determines if you leave the coolant lines connected or not. Again...is coolant cooling oil or is oil cooling coolant at the exchanger while at full temp. Another possibility...as temps rise does this flip?

Aha, thanks, that makes sense. On paper, the easiest solution for those wanting lower temps sounds like a bigger heat exchanger, no? Are there any that will work?

 

[Chuck B]

Thanks for another confirmation that my temp is OK/normal, gives me heaps of peace of mind. I already have the 170 t-stat. I've heard all it really does is take longer for the engine to heat up lol. At this stage I will run the truck with the oil gauge running and see what temps I get too. If it's around (hopefully below) the 200F mark I'll leave it as is and get Tony's oil lines and call it a day. If it's above 200F on both coolant and oil, I'll get Sean to engage my fan sooner. I guess I'm a bit of worry wart sometimes, while hotter temps may help hp, it just "feels" so wrong to run a vehicle around when it's hot. That begs the question, is 200F hot for our engines or aluminium engines in general??? :dontknow:

I have to laugh at those who say 170 thermostate resulted in cooler running vehicle. In 'normal' outside temps my truck runs pretty consistent 195 according to the water temp gauge. I'm running factory thermostat and would agree that if I switched to a 170 thermostat I could very well see lower temps. However, my water temp gauge will quite often sit at 200-205 range when pushed in moderate Phoenix heat (thats around 100F for us here). Installing the 170 thermostat will have NO effect at reducing temps. Only way it could possibly reduce temps is if it allowed more water to flow past and if the radiator itself was capable of shedding the heat.

In our high summer heat...thats over 110F...I can easily get my ECU to pull timing. Water temp gauge is around 210F at that point. Generally oil temp water temp rise in unison however a few times I was pushing the truck up a 8% grade in over 100F weather, 4th gear around 5500 rpms and saw oil temps passed my water temps. If I recall oil gauge reached about 230F.

Is 200F hot for our engines....no. According to the engineers who designed it about 210F as indicated on my water temp gauge is when they felt it was too hot and forced a cool down if the driver wanted to or not. Please remember water temp sending unit and gauge are not necessarily accurate vehicle to vehicle. I have an OBDII reader and its pulling water temp from another sender (I believe) as it does not read same temp as gauge nor does it vary as much as my gauge.

Bottomline....your ECU will let you know if your engine is running too hot. When it pulls timing its like someone just added 800lbs instantly to the truck. The first couple times mine did it my only thought was "Oh Shit...!" Its that abrupt.

 

[Chuck B]

Aha, thanks, that makes sense. On paper, the easiest solution for those wanting lower temps sounds like a bigger heat exchanger, no? Are there any that will work?

I believe the issue is the radiator is not capable of shedding heat when faced with weather we get here in Az. I've had vehicles in the past where I upgraded the radiator and after that never ever saw a water temp gauge climb/vary like mine does on my SRT10. I'm afraid that our radiator is ....just good enough.

 

[Carlwalski]

I have to laugh at those who say 170 thermostate resulted in cooler running vehicle. In 'normal' outside temps my truck runs pretty consistent 195 according to the water temp gauge. I'm running factory thermostat and would agree that if I switched to a 170 thermostat I could very well see lower temps. However, my water temp gauge will quite often sit at 200-205 range when pushed in moderate Phoenix heat (thats around 100F for us here). Installing the 170 thermostat will have NO effect at reducing temps. Only way it could possibly reduce temps is if it allowed more water to flow past and if the radiator itself was capable of shedding the heat.

In our high summer heat...thats over 110F...I can easily get my ECU to pull timing. Water temp gauge is around 210F at that point. Generally oil temp water temp rise in unison however a few times I was pushing the truck up a 8% grade in over 100F weather, 4th gear around 5500 rpms and saw oil temps passed my water temps. If I recall oil gauge reached about 230F.

Is 200F hot for our engines....no. According to the engineers who designed it about 210F as indicated on my water temp gauge is when they felt it was too hot and forced a cool down if the driver wanted to or not. Please remember water temp sending unit and gauge are not necessarily accurate vehicle to vehicle. I have an OBDII reader and its pulling water temp from another sender (I believe) as it does not read same temp as gauge nor does it vary as much as my gauge.

Bottomline....your ECU will let you know if your engine is running too hot. When it pulls timing its like someone just added 800lbs instantly to the truck. The first couple times mine did it my only thought was "Oh Shit...!" Its that abrupt.

Holy crap, is it that bad!?! Yikes, OK then, well, my truck hasn't gotten that hot yet to pull timing. My gauge gets up to around the mark below, which I'm guessing is around 95c (ish) which is 203F. That's after around 20 minutes normal driving. I noticed the last time I was out that when I floored it (I wanted to see what it'd do at 200F) the temp actually dropped below 90/200F lol. I guess it forced the fan on harder? My truck will dip often below 90, around about 85c every now and then (185F) so it does get cooler at times.

 

[Carlwalski]

I believe the issue is the radiator is not capable of shedding heat when faced with weather we get here in Az. I've had vehicles in the past where I upgraded the radiator and after that never ever saw a water temp gauge climb/vary like mine does on my SRT10. I'm afraid that our radiator is ....just good enough.

Do you think it's like this because as several people have said in this thread and many others like it that our engines like the heat? :dontknow:

 

[Chuck B]

Aluminum engines tend to like more heat than an iron one. If the engineers said 220F thermostat was needed then so be it. What matters to me is the fact my cooling system can't maintain a steady temp under many conditions. Conditions that I feel are not too extreme.

Granted Phx is a bit extreme. At a track day last summer after lunch break ambient temp was 112F. Asphalt via my IR measured 162F. Air temp at 5ft level was nearly 130F. But I can push my truck in far less extreme temps and get the water temp moving up quickly. I will admit that the ECU has only pulled timing when it was hot even by Phx measurements.

 

[rottenronnie]

Do you think it's like this because as several people have said in this thread and many others like it that our engines like the heat? :dontknow:

A number of ALL ALUMINUM engines like a certain amount of heat to work efficiently and the Viper engine is no exception. I have never been a big fan of the 170 degree t. stats as our o.e.m. combustion chambers aren't great and don't develop a lot of "cleaning heat". The chambers often look like someone was burning paper inside of them. The Gen I and Gen II engines were even worse.

But it depends on several factors; Ambient temps where you live and drive being one of them. I live in a generally cold(er) climate, certainly more so than where you live.
I have seen several trucks (mine included when it was new) that lay down badly after just a bit of fooling around on the street. One quick w.o.t. blast and it works ok but immediately followed by another quick blast will cause it to really lose power. That thanks to a hyper-active ignition retard program built into the factory ecu. The factory ecu program can pull a whopping 8 degrees of timing once the air inlet temp rises above only 95F and THAT power loss you can feel. A good performance program will get rid of that issue, however.

I am going to switch to Evans Waterless Coolant in my own truck. I continue to hear good things about it from some knowledgeable people. It might be something for you guys living it hotter areas to consider. Pricey, but it's a one shot, lifetime deal.

Ronnie

 

[Carlwalski]

A number of ALL ALUMINUM engines like a certain amount of heat to work efficiently and the Viper engine is no exception. I have never been a big fan of the 170 degree t. stats as our o.e.m. combustion chambers aren't great and don't develop a lot of "cleaning heat". The chambers often look like someone was burning paper inside of them. The Gen I and Gen II engines were even worse.

But it depends on several factors; Ambient temps where you live and drive being one of them. I live in a generally cold(er) climate, certainly more so than where you live.
I have seen several trucks (mine included when it was new) that lay down badly after just a bit of fooling around on the street. One quick w.o.t. blast and it works ok but immediately followed by another quick blast will cause it it really lose power. That thanks to a hyper-active ignition retard program built into the factory ecu. The factory ecu program can pull a whopping 8 degrees of timing once the air inlet temp rises above only 95F and THAT power loss you can feel. A good performance program will get rid of that issue, however.

I am going to use some Evans Coolant waterless coolant in my own truck. I continue to hear good things about it from some knowledgeable people. It might be something for you guys living it hotter areas to consider. Pricey, but it's a one shot, lifetime deal.

Ronnie

Thanks Ronnie and once again Chuck, much appreciated. I'll post what my oil temps are tomorrow along with my local air temp. I'm hoping it's below 200F, then I'll just get braid lines and be set! These last few days have been average summer days, nothing hardcore, 80F (or there abouts).


:rock:

 

[rottenronnie]

Thanks Ronnie and once again Chuck, much appreciated. I'll post what my oil temps are tomorrow along with my local air temp. I'm hoping it's below 200F, then I'll just get braid lines and be set! These last few days have been average summer days, nothing hardcore, 80F (or there abouts).


:rock:

We warmed up to 5 degrees today...

 

[Carlwalski]

We warmed up to 5 degrees today...

For winter we often get close to that, usually 10-12c is average but on the stormy days, 0 can often be possible and below. A "warm" winter day is 15c. Summer down here is around 25-35 (MAX). Australia has the worst heat problems, some like it but for me, that place is just TOO hot, ugly hot.

 

[rottenronnie]

For winter we often get close to that, usually 10-12c is average but on the stormy days, 0 can often be possible and below. A "warm" winter day is 15c. Summer down here is around 25-35 (MAX). Australia has the worst heat problems, some like it but for me, that place is just TOO hot, ugly hot.

We had a -59 day near here before Christmas last year that broke a record. We were the coldest place on the planet that day.
I had some noises coming out of the 4x4 I have never heard before...
But yes I see it on the news sometimes where Australia gets REALLY hot, like you said. The BatRam probably doesn't appreciate it, but I'd bet the snakes and lizards like it ...