Our Conspicious Consumption...

[Silverback]

But in all honesty, what do you do about this? How do you stop progress and development?

As long as we continue to reproduce and increase the population the demand for more products will increase. Humans by nature want more. That drives new items that people will want. They then discard the old.

Air travel? Do we start to ban it except for critical travel? What is critical? And then if we do that, what about all the jobs that are tied to that industry, starting with the manufactures of the planes and all of their supplier all the way to the airlines and the industries that support them.

Can we become more efficient? Yes. Will it make up for the increased population? No, it will not.

So, how do we control the population? War? Well that is one way. Discontinue all health care? You get sick you die? That would never cut it. Limit the number of children you can have? Well we see how that goes over in China and the worlds reaction to that.

So, what is the answer? To be truthful I don't believe there is one.

If you are a lone person in the desert and only have 1 gallon of water, no matter what you do to conserve, you will run out of water eventually. The earth is no different. We can do our best to conserve, but eventually some resources will run out.

So, we develop new things to replace them with. Let's look at a couple of those.

Many years ago we needed to save the trees, so for the most part plastic shopping bags replaced the paper bags. Now what is happening? Plastic bags are filling up our land fills so we are going back to paper bags. Some would say the solution on this issue was worse than the original concern.

Electricity. What is an exceptable way to produce electricty? Let's look at the most common methods.

Dams. Nope, not acceptable. They endanger fish and wildlife, and in general do not fit in with nature.

Coal fired power plants. Nope, not acceptable. Air pollution and they are an eyesore.

Gas powered power plants. Nope, not acceptable. Air pollution, noise, and they are an eyesore.

Solar power plants. Nope, not acceptable. They are an eyesore and birds can be harmed.

Wind power plants. Nope, not acceptable. The turbines kill birds.

Wave power plants. Nope, not acceptable. They are an eyesore. No one want to go to the coast and see these things floating in the ocean.

Nuclear. Nope, not acceptable. There might be an accident.

Did I miss anything? Doesn't really matter, as no matter what we come up with, some group will protest it for some reason, and make sure that it's banned.

So maybe the best solution is a nice little world war and we kill off 90% of the human race and start over.

 

[ZCx]

yep. IMHO there are way too many ugly bags of mostly water on this rock. if one does not agree, then when is too many? 12 billion, 24 billion, etc.???

 

[TheSickness]

But in all honesty, what do you do about this? How do you stop progress and development?

As long as we continue to reproduce and increase the population the demand for more products will increase. Humans by nature want more. That drives new items that people will want. They then discard the old.

Air travel? Do we start to ban it except for critical travel? What is critical? And then if we do that, what about all the jobs that are tied to that industry, starting with the manufactures of the planes and all of their supplier all the way to the airlines and the industries that support them.

Can we become more efficient? Yes. Will it make up for the increased population? No, it will not.

So, how do we control the population? War? Well that is one way. Discontinue all health care? You get sick you die? That would never cut it. Limit the number of children you can have? Well we see how that goes over in China and the worlds reaction to that.

So, what is the answer? To be truthful I don't believe there is one.

If you are a lone person in the desert and only have 1 gallon of water, no matter what you do to conserve, you will run out of water eventually. The earth is no different. We can do our best to conserve, but eventually some resources will run out.

So, we develop new things to replace them with. Let's look at a couple of those.

Many years ago we needed to save the trees, so for the most part plastic shopping bags replaced the paper bags. Now what is happening? Plastic bags are filling up our land fills so we are going back to paper bags. Some would say the solution on this issue was worse than the original concern.

Electricity. What is an exceptable way to produce electricty? Let's look at the most common methods.

Dams. Nope, not acceptable. They endanger fish and wildlife, and in general do not fit in with nature.

Coal fired power plants. Nope, not acceptable. Air pollution and they are an eyesore.

Gas powered power plants. Nope, not acceptable. Air pollution, noise, and they are an eyesore.

Solar power plants. Nope, not acceptable. They are an eyesore and birds can be harmed.

Wind power plants. Nope, not acceptable. The turbines kill birds.

Wave power plants. Nope, not acceptable. They are an eyesore. No one want to go to the coast and see these things floating in the ocean.

Nuclear. Nope, not acceptable. There might be an accident.

Did I miss anything? Doesn't really matter, as no matter what we come up with, some group will protest it for some reason, and make sure that it's banned.

So maybe the best solution is a nice little world war and we kill off 90% of the human race and start over.

.......... I noticed the lack of response after this post....Prolly cause it's not full of Shit and correct LOL Can't fight logic can you

 

[Silverback]

.......... I noticed the lack of response after this post....Prolly cause it's not full of Shit and correct LOL Can't fight logic can you

Seems like some of my responses have the affect of killing the thread.

I was hoping for at least a reply from Roy.

 

[Prof]

Hogwash!


And here is a present for my friend from big industry...


http://tour6.met-art.com/new.html?CA=901313&PA=911233


Are any of these children worth saving?

 

[Silverback]

Hogwash!


And here is a present for my friend from big industry...


Deleated as being off topic, FSTJACKhttp://tour6.met-art.com/new.html?CA=901313&PA=911233


Are any of these children worth saving?

Nope, not a single one of them.

Are you avoiding answering what I posted?:dontknow:

 

[Prof]

If we all had a defeatist attitude we would not have any Bald Eagles, or California Condors.

I refuse to believe that we cannot cope with the environmental exigencies of our planet. I believe that technology will be our main tool, but we humans must make our own individual contributions. In my mind, it is kind of like a health care co-pay...while it really does not directly contribute to the solution, it creates a state of mind that is just the opposite of the one you espouse.

I live with a positive attitude towards all negative issues...part of being a flaming liberal I guess, but I will not yield to the urge to say there is nothing we can do. Your comment in my mind fits the title of the thread perfectly, but totally on the negative side...I prefer to work for a better world in which our grand children can have their grand children...once again rather than focus on the things we differ about, we need to start focusing on the things we agree upon, and use those issues as a foundation for progress.

 

[ZCx]

yep. IMHO there are way too many ugly bags of mostly water on this rock. if one does not agree, then when is too many? 12 billion, 24 billion, etc.???

then what be your responce to my above post?????

 

[Prof]

I think everyone who is not doing their part for environmental improvement should fold their penis or plug their vagina as their contribution...I am not the solution to this problem only the town crier.

 

[belgiumbarry]

don't forget guys ,we europ ones, find a car with HALF consumption of a US car still exagerating polluting...
no need to go in figures i suppose....:dontknow:

 

[ZCx]

so that means that twice the folks can be added????

 

[Prof]

Sure but only if they meet the qualifications displayed in post 25 above.

 

[ntw0rk]

Hey Roy, there is a program coming on National Geographic Channel on the 13th called The Human Footprint.

http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/channel/human-footprint/

Should be interesting!

 

[Prof]

Hey Roy, there is a program coming on National Geographic Channel on the 13th called The Human Footprint.

http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/channel/human-footprint/

Should be interesting!

Meet ya there!

 

[Silverback]

I know your plan...with the condors gone...it leaves more rotting flesh to you...Mikey and Condors both start their meals the same way...gnawing at the anus for easy access. Go brush your teeth, I smell your breath all the way up here in Illinois....

Hey! That was Roy flaming! Never done that before...will you teach me more Mikey???

Way to go Roy. :congrats: :rofl:

 

[Prof]

I'm learning! I'm not good yet, but I learn quickly and am considered trainable.

 

[Prof]

Well, good may be a stretch...but I am stretching my wings a little with the attempts at wicked remarks...stretching wings like the spotted owl has every right to do...

 

[OCBob]

Interesting topic for this board Roy. Believe it or not, I happen to feel strongly about the environment. I am very worried about the world I will be leaving my children, and their children to follow. (I really don't think that the breast implants are a waste of resources though hehehe).

I was a evolutionary biology major in college, so I have had some education on these matters. In addition my little brother works for Maricopa County as an air quality enforcement officer. So I obviously get inundated with information from him.

I really wish I had the answers. I really wish anybody did to be honest. I don't believe that there really is a solution to the problem, but there are steps we can take to help mitigate it.

As someone else mentioned packaging is a huge problem. Our trash cans are full at the end of the week with boxes, bags, and other assorted items that companies use to grab your eye in the supermarket and store aisles. And that is a complete waste, they serve no purpose for the most part other than marketing. There's got to be a better way.

As far as energy is concerned, I am a staunch supporter of nuclear energy. It really is safe. Not to say that the possibility of accidents don't exist, but they are small, and with some more investment and research the chances could be further reduced. The efficiency and cleanliness of the energy greatly outweighs the risks in my opinion though.

The one thing that concerns me is the nuclear waste. Maybe we should just shoot it all off into space?

I am also guilty of wasting energy though, though I do try to conserve where possible. We keep our house at 67 in the winter and 75 in the summer (helps with the bills too). I have tried my best to teach my kids to turn off electrical appliances when not being used. I do little things, I'm not going to save the world all by myself, but I guess it's better than nothing.

I really hate the development of so much of our land. But as Silver said, the population dictates that. Who knows, maybe nature will have the last word and unleash another pandemic on us, either a flu or God forbid some type of hemorrhagic fever.

In the end, we as a species are destined for extinction. What we don't know is if we will bring it upon ourselves and when it will happen. But to be sure, we certainly aren't doing ourselves any favors with our actions.

 

[Prof]

I think that as we see the depletion of resources we will all become much more aware and concerned.

Your point about nuclear energy is well taken. Once our society gets afraid we seldom can get rational again. I agree that nuclear is safe and probably one of the answers for the future.

Another example of learning how to use technology is DDT...while we were very careless with it and did great damage until it was outlawed...we now have one million people a year that die because of malaria. The careful application of DDT (and we now do have the knowledge to use it correctly) would save every one of those lives.

We all do what we can, and we all waste too much...but to me awareness is part of the solution...and we will have solutions, I just hope that we do not suffer too much in the process of learning.

 

[Silverback]

What follows is probably the most serious you will ever see me.

Take a look at the attached picture. Words cannot really begin to describe what one feels looking at that. Not only is difficult to see, but I cannot help but think that the child will not even be dead when the vulture starts to eat.

Not the vultures fault, it's nature.

Now, for the difficult part. What can you do? What can anyone do? Can you save one child? Can you save a hundred or a thousand?

What if you do? What happens then? They continue to have more children and the cycle continues, or perhaps even gets worse.

My wife thinks I'm heartless. Maybe I am, but I'm also a realist. I help those that I know, and those that I know can take that help and build upon it. I have helped a few people on this site, most notably Mikey. Why? Because I knew he would also help himself, and he would return that help by helping others. To me that is an investment that paid off.

I refuse to give to charities. To much of the money goes to the "Management" of the charity. Also in my opinion it does no good to help in a situation like that in the picture. It will continue no matter what I do.

In a way, I love Roy like an older brother. I also know that he has a heart bigger than the great outdoors. However I would like him to try to explain to how I'm wrong. I do not want to see this as a pissing match, but more as an opportunity for someone I respect to see if they can open my eyes.