Timing on the 10?

[rottenronnie]

I have heard a maximum of 35degrees timing with race gas and methanol injection is the most our engines will handle. To run 35 degrees timing would be a ticking time bomb. I would estimate 28-30 degrees should be in the safe range with 11.0 to 1 max AFR under W.O.T. If it's a QC then make sure your shift points are no higher than 5500 RPM's. The Stage2 ECM's are overly agressive in the mid range timing and have to lean of a fuel air mixture I.M.O.

It was suggested by one of our forum tuners that 36 was fine for a standard tune. There was no mention of race fuel or methanol support. :creep:

Anyway, mine liked 32 before the mods and still does now. It varies...

That original stage 2 flash really woke up the mid-range torque and made these trucks contenders.

I may be livin' on the edge because my Q.C. bounces off of the rev limiter on the 1-2 shift and the others come in at 6114 r.p.m. (3-4 hits at 125 m.p.h.). It has been that way for 51,000 miles now. If it blows, it will come back even stronger and give me a chance to even out that so-so leak-down test.

 

[SrtBrad]

It was suggested by one of our forum tuners that 36 was fine for a standard tune. There was no mention of race fuel or methanol support. :creep:

Anyway, mine liked 32 before the mods and still does now. It varies...

That original stage 2 flash really woke up the mid-range torque and made these trucks contenders.

I may be livin' on the edge because my Q.C. bounces off of the rev limiter on the 1-2 shift and the others come in at 6114 r.p.m. (3-4 hits at 125 m.p.h.). It has been that way for 51,000 miles now. If it blows, it will come back even stronger and give me a chance to even out that so-so leak-down test.

From my experience when we ran 35 degees with race gas and meth injection we got noteable engine knock resulting in over 1.2 volts from the engine knock sensor. After the knock sensor reads 1.2 volts or more the ECM retards the timing 2 degrees and continues retarding the timing till the sensor reads under 1.2 volts. At 36 degrees the engine lost power completely. I also increased the rev limiter to 6100 rpm so we could tune to 6000 rpm's.

This was my bleeding edge tune after 41000 original hard miles with over 200 passes at the track. The #3 rod bearing didn't appreciate the extra rpm's and timing combined with the all day engine pulls.

Ron you could be fine with your bleeding edge tune if you drive it easy but I wouldn't continuosly push your engine with 6100 rpm shift points. I see that you are not running 36 degrees. 32 is pushing it a little but be safer by having the AFR closer to 11 for insurance instead of 12 - 13. Having a 12 - 13 AFR NA is OK but there is no room for error. I had mine set to 11 for insurance just incase the meth injection failed.

 

[rottenronnie]

From my experience when we ran 35 degees with race gas and meth injection we got noteable engine knock resulting in over 1.2 volts from the engine knock sensor. After the knock sensor reads 1.2 volts or more the ECM retards the timing 2 degrees and continues retarding the timing till the sensor reads under 1.2 volts. At 36 degrees the engine lost power completely. I also increased the rev limiter to 6100 rpm so we could tune to 6000 rpm's.

This was my bleeding edge tune after 41000 original hard miles with over 200 passes at the track. The #3 rod bearing didn't appreciate the extra rpm's and timing combined with the all day engine pulls.

Ron you could be fine with your bleeding edge tune if you drive it easy but I wouldn't continuosly push your engine with 6100 rpm shift points. I see that you are not running 36 degrees. 32 is pushing it a little but be safer by having the AFR closer to 11 for insurance instead of 12 - 13. Having a 12 - 13 AFR NA is OK but there is no room for error. I had mine set to 11 for insurance just incase the meth injection failed.

Brad,

Thanks for the input. Were you driving a QC or Reg Cab?
We are at 3500 feet here and at 32, there is a trace of ping when it is loaded in the higher gears but no feedback at all from the knock sensors at that point. I.O.W. they aren't trying to pull any timing. It may be a different story at sea-level and likely will be...
What is killing #3 bearing on these engines? Is it an oiling issue or is it a load issue, from detonation?
#3 has the richest injector in there right now (in my engine), just in case...

Ron

 

[SrtBrad]

Brad,

Thanks for the input. We are at 3500 feet here and at 32, there is a trace of ping when it is loaded in the higher gears but no feedback at all from the knock sensors at that point. I.O.W. they aren't trying to pull any timing. It may be a different story at sea-level and likely will be...
What is killing #3 bearing on these? Is it an oiling issue or is it a load issue from detonation? #3 has the richest injector in there right now...

Ron

I am talking about my 05QC.

Depending on the tuner I would say it's a combination of both however the oiling issue is the most prominent. If you racing down the 1/4 mile strip and when you reach the end you should be around the 5800 - 6000 rpm point if you have it in Tow Haul mode. Once you cross the finish do you just let off the gas or do you put it into neutral. If you let off the gas then the oil in the pan rushes to the back and when you are going 6000 rpm and if the oil pump sucks air you will spin a rod. This problem is even more compounded if you are road tuning when you introduce steep inclines. Having a swing arm in our pans should be mandatory.

Doing a couple of pulls here and there should be OK but doing pulls all day long is very risky. Our truck will take some abuse but it def won't take prolonged abuse.

 

[rottenronnie]

Depending on the tuner I would say it's a combination of both however the oiling issue is the most prominent. If you racing down the 1/4 mile strip and when you reach the end you should be around the 5800 - 6000 rpm point if you have it in Tow Haul mode. Once you cross the finish do you just let off the gas or do you put it into neutral. If you let off the gas then the oil in the pan rushes to the back and when you are going 6000 rpm and if the oil pump sucks air you will spin a rod. This problem is even more compounded if you are road tuning when you introduce steep inclines. Having a swing arm in our pans should be mandatory.

Doing a couple of pulls here and there should be OK but doing pulls all day long is very risky. Our truck will take some abuse but it def won't take prolonged abuse.

Its a pretty deep sump at the back of these truck engines but I can see where the Viper cars may be in jeopardy. I don't race in Tow/Haul esp. with the drag radials. They have turned the 4.56s into 4.91s already! It isn't revving very high at the end of the 1/4; certainly not high enough to force the oil completely out of the sump when I let up at the end; Not at my performance level anyway, it just isn't that violent.....
There is yet another 505 detonation victim that has also wrapped a bearing in the shop that I'll be rebuilding shortly. I'll check it out and see if it was oil starved or hammered and let you know what I find out.

RottenRonnie