Hillary's Health Care Proposal

[ViperJeff]

Question for Roy.

I have been doing some searching, but I can't find anything more than journalsitic opinions and political backlash.

Do you have a link that focus's on the plan and how it is intended to work across the board or is the only thing that's out there is the Hillary unvailing of it in a speech?

Thanks

Jeff

 

[Prof]

I read a pretty objective report on it in the Chicago Tribune...I'll bet the Wall Street Journal and the New York Times will also have pretty comprehensive accounts too.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/09/17/health.care/

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wn_...hillary_clinton_offers_new_health_care_p.html

And of course...

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/feature/healthcareplan/summary.aspx

 

[lightningeater]

1. We need to focus health care dollars on the front end (preventative care, and healthy life styles). This will assure a better quality of life for a longer period of time. Currently the funding is mostly invested at the end of life in heroic efforts to forestall what we all know will be the eventual outcome.
QUOTE]

Why do I need a government authority to tell me what a healthy lifestyle is and why I need to follow said lifestyle? I believe if I want to eat cheeseburgers and smoke 2 packs of ciggs a day which kills me in the end, as long as I'm paying for health insurance I have that liberty in this wonderful country...So who are you, the gov't, or anyone else to say otherwise?

 

[iraqivet01]

It would never pass. It nothing but a bunch of BS being said to get the elected. Too many of our elected official (both parties) have there hand in a lobbyiest pocket.

If it did, we can be just like the other countries that have it, and pay out the ass for on our taxes. i.e. Canada, Germany...

It nothing more than a Clinton ploy to get the lower class, elderly, gay,and minority to vote for them. It make then think that they will have someone in office than give a crap about them.

Already had to subject myself to 8 years with them in Office. I Pray it won't be another 4, or lord forbid 8!

If this pisses you Clinton lover out there. Too bad

 

[Black1]

Sounds interesting. I will read it over, and post with my thoughts in a little bit. :burnout:

 

[ViperJeff]

Well, I'm certainly not a clinton lover or even a democrat

But I am for good healthcare

 

[TREKER]

Hey Prof.... I never asked her to come to NY... I can overnight her to IL if you want...

I live in the wrong colored state.

We have bumper stickers all over the place that say Hillary.. Go Home...

Health care is a big issue. They all have approaches... I think it is easier to be an illegal immigrant and get all the health care you need for free, than try to institute what she is proposing. But I say that not only to her but all the candidates.

 

[Prof]

Why do I need a government authority to tell me what a healthy lifestyle is and why I need to follow said lifestyle? I believe if I want to eat cheeseburgers and smoke 2 packs of ciggs a day which kills me in the end, as long as I'm paying for health insurance I have that liberty in this wonderful country...So who are you, the gov't, or anyone else to say otherwise?

The problem is that a life style that leads to sever health problems, is never covered by the amount of insurance you have paid in...the unhealthy life styles as you alluded to lead to health problems that cost every one, not just you. If we develop a system in which your dollar input to health care is the maximum that will be paid for your services, then I agree with you.

But those who have problems are always subsidized by those that don't. And in the case of indigent, or uninsured people, or people without personal resources become an extra load on all other participants in the health care system.

You may well say, if a person smokes and gets lung cancer so be it. But that persons family will be pleading with health care providers to do everything possible to try to save his life...and they will get their way. And the cigarettes smoked by your hypothetical person will become a liability to all of society, and that causes BCBS to raise their rates every time they walk into Eddie's office.

Hell, if the numbers are still correct, 25 percent of MEDICARE resources are expended during the last year of a person's life...what sense does that make?

 

[AWDisuzu]

I'm glad I can afford healthcare. I prefer to keep things where you get what you pay for instead of everyone getting shitty low cost healthcare.

 

[Prof]

Really off topic but came across this in surfing the web...

Remember only the numbers thru 2005 are actual...the other years are administration estimates...

This is a really sad story that will cause your grandchildren to ask: "What was grandpa thinking...or was he thinking at all?":

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/fy2005/tables.html

 

[ViperJeff]

Another thing that is being overlooked here. Insurance companies look at the health or pre-existing conditions of those they are going to insure. That affects the rates of the entire healthcare package for a company.

If your part of a large organization, it may not be that big of deal.

But I was trying to get healthcare for some of my employee's when I was a business owner, had a pretty sweet deal going and thought i had put together a good package. then.... I hired a nurse that had some pretty bad health issues. Still a great nurse, but ......

To put it simply. at the time I was paying IHC 480.00 a month for a package for my family. The plan I was looking at was also IHC, would have cost me 510.00, but the company would have been able to offer a health care package.

After I hired the new nurse, the agent had to do a recalculation based on her health. The same insurance plan that was costing me 480.00, that would have went up to 510.00, was now going to cost me 1010.00 for the same coverage. Infact one of the single plans for one of my employees would have went from 85.00 a month to 550.00 a month.

I had to tell the insurance agent to take a flying leap.

If somehow an insurance program could be put in place to help all get insurance and not let the insurance companies kill single plans, family plans or small business plans. I would be all for it.

Remember, your point of view is not that of everyone, it's just what you know. I know a little more than some and a lot less than others. But the insurance industry really sucks and its only getting worse.

Something needs to be done


And thats, why I'm listening and paying attention

 

[Prof]

Future insurance plans must do most of the following:

1. All employees must participate especially the younger healthier ones.
2. Every insurance payer must accept the bad risk along with the good risk hence no pre-existing conditions (after a short waiting period).
3. The government is going to have to subsidize small business with tax incentives and deductions to help small business pay the premiums for their employees.
4. There will be penalties for those who raise the risk of the pool of employees. Those penalties will be additional cost for coverage, for those that are morbidly obese, persistent smokers, or drive mustangs in the presence of an SRT 10.

 

[lightningeater]

Correct me if I'm wrong, as I am no expert in the healthcare industry, but isn't the reason private health insurance rates actually go up is because of the circle of MEDICARE paying the hospitals and doctors lower rates which in turn forces the hospitals and doctors to raise their rates for private insurance? It sounds to me like the real answer is for the government to "deregulate" the healthcare industry and make it a true free market. That's the only ultimate solution in a capitalist nation...i.e. let the consumer's demand set the price for the product. Unfortunately this will never happen, at least not in any of our lifetimes.

 

[Prof]

Correct me if I'm wrong, as I am no expert in the healthcare industry, but isn't the reason private health insurance rates actually go up is because of the circle of MEDICARE paying the hospitals and doctors lower rates which in turn forces the hospitals and doctors to raise their rates for private insurance? It sounds to me like the real answer is for the government to "deregulate" the healthcare industry and make it a true free market. That's the only ultimate solution in a capitalist nation...i.e. let the consumer's demand set the price for the product. Unfortunately this will never happen, at least not in any of our lifetimes.

Yup, MEDICARE is a very low payer...but much better than MEDICAID in most cases...and there are lots of overhead expenses that are also covered by MEDICARE. Cost shifting is a problem in health care. It is very hard to discern exactly what direct costs really are. Unless you have true cost accounting in a health care facility it is really difficult to assess expenses to users. So there is a huge game that everyone engages in that ends up screwing everyone except the physicians, lawyers and the insurance companies.

Tort reform is part of the problem too. The liability issues are mind boggling. But to secure tort reform...you have to get legislators to agree...and most of them are lawyers, soooooooo...better go another direction.

 

[ViperJeff]

Correct me if I'm wrong, as I am no expert in the healthcare industry, but isn't the reason private health insurance rates actually go up is because of the circle of MEDICARE paying the hospitals and doctors lower rates which in turn forces the hospitals and doctors to raise their rates for private insurance? It sounds to me like the real answer is for the government to "deregulate" the healthcare industry and make it a true free market. That's the only ultimate solution in a capitalist nation...i.e. let the consumer's demand set the price for the product. Unfortunately this will never happen, at least not in any of our lifetimes.

Medicare being the reason is one of the big myths

Malpractice insurance plays more of a role and so does community ER's.

You know the rule. Treatment cannot be based on the ability to pay. So those that don't have healthcare are adding to this problem 1000's of times a day

 

[includemeout]

Would this be one of the reasons Jeffy?????????????????:dontknow:

LOS ANGELES — This is part three of a five-part series looking at how illegal immigration affects U.S. border security, the criminal, health care and education systems, as well as the economy. Watch the series this week on FOX News Channel.

Overburdened by the uninsured and overwhelmed by illegal immigration (search), public health care in Los Angeles is on life support.

Sixty percent of the county's uninsured patients are not U.S. citizens. More than half are here illegally. About 2 million undocumented aliens in Los Angeles County alone are crowding emergency rooms because they can't afford to see a doctor.

According to the State Association of Hospitals (search), California's public health system is "on the brink of collapse." In Los Angeles County, patients can wait four days for a hospital bed and up to two years for gallbladder surgery.

"The hospitals are closing because of the totality of the uninsured," said Dr. Thomas Garthwaite, director of the Los Angeles County Health Department (search). "If you're legally a resident in California and you're poor, you have a right to basic services."

But some critics say the taxpayers can't be the HMO (search) to the world. Last year, Los Angeles County spent $340 million to treat the uninsured; that's roughly $1,000 for every taxpayer.

"We're citizens here. Why should somebody from another country that's here illegally get anything that we can't get? I mean that's dumb, that's not right," said Don Schenck, whose son, Bill, is mentally disabled.

Though the Schencks are uninsured, and considered poor by county standards, his father had to find a way to pay for his Bill's care while thousands of others, in the country illegally, get it for free.

"It makes you feel pretty bad when you're born in that country and you're handicapped and you've got a learning disability and you can't get medical," Schenck said.

Mike Antonovich, the Los Angeles County supervisor, said the system has been "basically bankrupted."

The Department of Health has a $1.2 billion deficit. Caring for illegals is siphoning money from other services and forcing clinics, trauma centers and emergency rooms to close, he said.

"We cannot afford to have a open-door policy to encourage illegals to continue to come here and receive all the medical care, because it's too expensive," he said.

Immigrants like Yolanda Hernandez, however, argue that if there were cheap insurance plans available to her community, people would buy them.

"[Americans] have enough money to pay for insurance," she said. "They make good money and are educated. Unfortunately, we are not."

 

[belgiumbarry]

Would this be one of the reasons Jeffy?????????????????:dontknow:

LOS ANGELES — This is part three of a five-part series looking at how illegal immigration affects U.S. border security, the criminal, health care and education systems, as well as the economy. Watch the series this week on FOX News Channel.

Overburdened by the uninsured and overwhelmed by illegal immigration (search), public health care in Los Angeles is on life support.

Sixty percent of the county's uninsured patients are not U.S. citizens. More than half are here illegally. About 2 million undocumented aliens in Los Angeles County alone are crowding emergency rooms because they can't afford to see a doctor.

According to the State Association of Hospitals (search), California's public health system is "on the brink of collapse." In Los Angeles County, patients can wait four days for a hospital bed and up to two years for gallbladder surgery.

"The hospitals are closing because of the totality of the uninsured," said Dr. Thomas Garthwaite, director of the Los Angeles County Health Department (search). "If you're legally a resident in California and you're poor, you have a right to basic services."

But some critics say the taxpayers can't be the HMO (search) to the world. Last year, Los Angeles County spent $340 million to treat the uninsured; that's roughly $1,000 for every taxpayer.

"We're citizens here. Why should somebody from another country that's here illegally get anything that we can't get? I mean that's dumb, that's not right," said Don Schenck, whose son, Bill, is mentally disabled.

Though the Schencks are uninsured, and considered poor by county standards, his father had to find a way to pay for his Bill's care while thousands of others, in the country illegally, get it for free.

"It makes you feel pretty bad when you're born in that country and you're handicapped and you've got a learning disability and you can't get medical," Schenck said.

Mike Antonovich, the Los Angeles County supervisor, said the system has been "basically bankrupted."

The Department of Health has a $1.2 billion deficit. Caring for illegals is siphoning money from other services and forcing clinics, trauma centers and emergency rooms to close, he said.

"We cannot afford to have a open-door policy to encourage illegals to continue to come here and receive all the medical care, because it's too expensive," he said.

Immigrants like Yolanda Hernandez, however, argue that if there were cheap insurance plans available to her community, people would buy them.

"[Americans] have enough money to pay for insurance," she said. "They make good money and are educated. Unfortunately, we are not."

which one Jerry ? :dontknow:

 

[ViperJeff]

Jerry it sure would.....

And that variable I can pretty much be certain that any program that anyone comes up with cannot address that problem with any hope of working.

Thats why I didn't use it as one of the problems.

But in a way I did.......

"Treatment cannot be based on the ability to pay"

 

[includemeout]

Don't know I didn't get a free education :dontknow:

which one Jerry ? :dontknow:

 

[Pastohio]

Prof, you keep repeating what George Soros says through the mouths of Billary, pretty boy Edwards, and Osama bi uganda or whatever he is going by this week , IT IS NOT a private health plan when the government gets involved , you are probably under the same "feeling" that IRS is not a government entity and the Income tax is private and selective IF you want to participate....Billary is using a play on words....check it ALL out...