Hillary's Health Care Proposal

[Prof]

Hillary's scheme is only a proposal....... The concept car of healthcare....

It doesn't mean shit unless she can get it through the legislative system.....By that time it will be completely unrecognizable from the original.

How's that for getting to the point.....?

D

You are so damned practical and rational....damn kill joy!

It's good to dream! Quit being so right...pisses me off.

 

[Prof]

... To get our soaring insurance rates in check we need to address tort reform and bolster fraud prevention. Raising taxes on an already overtaxed public is not the right answer.

Should I go on? :dontknow:

Tim I will reserve my comments on your view of her health care proposal until after you have read it. Unless I am mistaken you are not part of the universe that she has proposed to raise taxes on to fund the additional cost...or maybe I am wrong and you do net over $250k annually.

As for your comments about the Clinton family's criminality...that is your area, I presume you are much better informed than me. But from my point of view they are just like every other political family...and probably have lots of flaws...but the last time I checked our approach to that is "innocent until proven guilty"...or did I miss something during one of my mandatory naps here at the old folks home?

Oh yes, and I commented on tort reform above...but you may have neglected to read that too...

 

[Overclocker]

This is a human problem not an individual one...people need to think beyond the current state of affairs, beyond their own circumstances to grasp the problem...visit an emergency room sometime and look at the state of health care for the 47 million Americans without health coverage...

QUOTE]

I can't discuss the health care system as an insider, but from a meta level, I think one of the problems at the core of this discussion is a genuine reluctance of some individuals to help other folks. There's quite a bit of "I got mine, screw y'all" going on. I don't understand that. Perhaps the arguement needs to come from a perspective where helping people is only incidental to making money. We, as Americans, are (were?) a generous, decent, just and helpful people. We can do better by the most vulnerable of us.

 

[Overclocker]

Tim I will reserve my comments on your view of her health care proposal until after you have read it. Unless I am mistaken you are not part of the universe that she has proposed to raise taxes on to fund the additional cost...or maybe I am wrong and you do net over $250k annually.

I though part of the funding of the tax credits was to come from the as-designed expiration of those irresponsibe tax cuts.

 

[QClikeKW]

Jeff, I bet that you and I will agree on some basic issues (and I hope others will too):


5. Individuals need to be held accountable for actions that adversely impact the delivery and cost of care to others.

More later...have to get my Mother-in-law fed...

I agree individuals who drive trucks with super chargers should be turned away from E.R.'s because the dangerous life style they were leading could create a burden on us taxpayers without blowers.

Well using this logic it might seem to have merit someday :dontknow:

 

[Prof]

I can't discuss the health care system as an insider, but from a meta level, I think one of the problems at the core of this discussion is a genuine reluctance of some individuals to help other folks. There's quite a bit of "I got mine, screw y'all" going on. I don't understand that. Perhaps the arguement needs to come from a perspective where helping people is only incidental to making money. We, as Americans, are (were?) a generous, decent, just and helpful people. We can do better by the most vulnerable of us.

I really hope you are wrong. But I fear that you may be correct.

But I will not give up on those who need help, and I also will not give up on the American public, I do think that they are the most caring, giving and concerned population in the world...but their patience is wearing thin...but when push comes to shove...and that might be very soon, I know America will stand by all Americans, and do what needs to be done to make high quality health care available, accessible and affordable.

 

[Django]

You are so damned practical and rational....damn kill joy!

It's good to dream! Quit being so right...pisses me off.

That's my big problem with the Clinton's. They're career politicians... They may be thee most facile of all time..... Everything sounds way too good to be true.... and we know what they say about that.....

Bill and Hillary are equal to the David Blaine of politics.... and I don't trust either one of them one goddam bit.

D

 

[Prof]

On the other hand I thought George W. was a business man who became a governor and then I voted for him for President...and I thought I could trust him, but I have learned different...maybe it is the water in Washington D.C.???

 

[Prof]

I agree individuals who drive trucks with super chargers should be turned away from E.R.'s because the dangerous life style they were leading could create a burden on us taxpayers without blowers.

Well using this logic it might seem to have merit someday :dontknow:

I really don't disagree...and if that is one of the provisions I will have a decision to make.

I also own a home on the water in the Florida Keys. I think it is ludicrous that every time we have a hurricane that my insurance company keeps rebuilding my home. If they were smart they would complete rebuilding it and say: "It is your risk from this point forward...we will not pay again, because you choose to live in danger." The moment they say that I do have another choice to make. Individuals do need to be accountable for their own decisions.

 

[Overclocker]

That's my big problem with the Clinton's. They're career politicians... They may be thee most facile of all time..... Everything sounds way too good to be true.... and we know what they say about that.....

Bill and Hillary are equal to the David Blaine of politics.... and I don't trust either one of them one goddam bit.

D

Aren't the Bush's career politicians? Things sounded SO GOOD when he first took office! A "return" to Reagan! Woo Hoo! Too good to be true I guess...

 

[Django]

Aren't the Bush's career politicians? Things sounded SO GOOD when he first took office! A "return" to Reagan! Woo Hoo! Too good to be true I guess...

On the other hand I thought George W. was a business man who became a governor and then I voted for him for President...and I thought I could trust him, but I have learned different...maybe it is the water in Washington D.C.???

Excuse me, but I thought the topic was Hillary and her healthcare proposal....

But just to humor you - yer right, I voted for the MFr twice and I was a believer, too. George Bush is a terrible disappointment.

In order for the US to survive, we need to take all the politicians out and shoot 'em down like vicious, rabid beasts.

D

 

[Black1]

Excuse me, but I thought the topic was Hillary and her healthcare proposal....

But just to humor you - yer right, I voted for the MFr twice and I was a believer, too. George Bush is a terrible disappointment.

In order for the US to survive, we need to take all the politicians out and shoot 'em down like vicious, rabid beasts.

D

I'm sorry, D.... But, I disagree.... BUSH isn't (per-se) the disappointment.... I think his CABINET are the real rulers of the free world. And they are led by the shadiest mother-fu'ker of them all..... MR. RICHARD CHENEY.

 

[Django]

I'm sorry, D.... But, I disagree.... BUSH isn't (per-se) the disappointment.... I think his CABINET is the real rulers of the free world. And they are led by the shadiest mother-fu'ker of them all..... MR. RICHARD CHENEY.

Oh Yes......you are correct.........

We do disagree...........

D

 

[Black1]

Oh Yes......you are correct.........

We do disagree...........

D

That's GOOD!!!! ...... I'm glad. (You know, because we agree on so much.... Except for who is going to get the Rep. Nomination this year. )

 

[Django]

That's GOOD!!!! ...... I'm glad. (You know, because we agree on so much.... Except for who is going to get the Rep. Nomination this year. )

The Republican nomination........?

As usual, it'll go to the one with the most convincing and universally appealing lies.

D

 

[Wifey]

I would hate to see the day you find yourself in the position of needing healthcare and not being able to afford it. It can happen. Not all poor people are poor because they have never had a job or don't like to work. I happen to know someone that has worked a steady job for 25 years and found themselves unemployed. After COBRA and searching for employment, there nest egg is all but exhausted.

If for some reason a medical problem was to happen that was of a serious nature. Yea, they would receive care, but, because they are unemployed at the moment, now everything is gone.

With affordable heathcare (insurance) this person could have some protection it that horrible event was to happen. As it is, healthcare is virtually unaffordable. The cost is greater than the unemployment checks.

:congrats: :congrats: :congrats: :congrats: :congrats: :congrats: :congrats: :congrats: :congrats: :congrats: :dito: :dito: :dito: :dito: :dito: :rock:

 

[lightningeater]

There's quite a bit of "I got mine, screw y'all" going on. I don't understand that. Perhaps the arguement needs to come from a perspective where helping people is only incidental to making money. We, as Americans, are (were?) a generous, decent, just and helpful people. We can do better by the most vulnerable of us.

This is exactly the point we will never agree upon. In a capitalist nation, which is what our forefathers created, we must be responsible for ourselves before others. I'm not saying I don't care about other people, I'm saying that there is a point where other people have to be responsible for theirselves and their families.

How can I be held responsible for someone else's choices in life?

Your perspective, in my opinion, is that we must help everyone that needs help, regardless of the circumstances. That, sir, is socialism. When we take away people's responsibility for their choices, we are on a fast track to destroying everything our fathers and grandfathers have worked for the last 231 years.

Socialism does not work (see USSR).

The most important thing my father ever taught me was to be accountable for my own actions. That, in my opinion, is the only real solution to the problem. Be accountable for you and your family.

This is the greatest nation in the world. There is more opportunity for success here than anywhere else. If you can't make it here, you won't make it anywhere.

If Prof's numbers are correct, almost 85% of Americans are somehow, some way paying for health insurance. In a nation of 300 million plus, how can that be a bad number? I agree that insurance is grossly over priced. I am a small business owner myself. I know first hand how expensive it is.

But you don't hear me whining about it looking for a hand out either. If I'm going to have health insurance, that means I might have to give up something less important which is a decision that I am responsible for.

 

[eddie102870]

This is exactly the point we will never agree upon. In a capitalist nation, which is what our forefathers created, we must be responsible for ourselves before others. I'm not saying I don't care about other people, I'm saying that there is a point where other people have to be responsible for theirselves and their families.

How can I be held responsible for someone else's choices in life?

Your perspective, in my opinion, is that we must help everyone that needs help, regardless of the circumstances. That, sir, is socialism. When we take away people's responsibility for their choices, we are on a fast track to destroying everything our fathers and grandfathers have worked for the last 231 years.

Socialism does not work (see USSR).

The most important thing my father ever taught me was to be accountable for my own actions. That, in my opinion, is the only real solution to the problem. Be accountable for you and your family.

This is the greatest nation in the world. There is more opportunity for success here than anywhere else. If you can't make it here, you won't make it anywhere.

If Prof's numbers are correct, almost 85% of Americans are somehow, some way paying for health insurance. In a nation of 300 million plus, how can that be a bad number? I agree that insurance is grossly over priced. I am a small business owner myself. I know first hand how expensive it is.

But you don't hear me whining about it looking for a hand out either. If I'm going to have health insurance, that means I might have to give up something less important which is a decision that I am responsible for.

:rock: :rock: :rock: :rock: :rock:

 

[eddie102870]

she ought to try fixing, workman's comp fraud while she's changing the world during her campaign. you wont here nuthing about all this if by some remote chance she gets elected.(won't be from my vote)

 

[Prof]

This is exactly the point we will never agree upon. In a capitalist nation, which is what our forefathers created, we must be responsible for ourselves before others. I'm not saying I don't care about other people, I'm saying that there is a point where other people have to be responsible for theirselves and their families.

How can I be held responsible for someone else's choices in life?

Your perspective, in my opinion, is that we must help everyone that needs help, regardless of the circumstances. That, sir, is socialism. When we take away people's responsibility for their choices, we are on a fast track to destroying everything our fathers and grandfathers have worked for the last 231 years.

Socialism does not work (see USSR).

The most important thing my father ever taught me was to be accountable for my own actions. That, in my opinion, is the only real solution to the problem. Be accountable for you and your family.

This is the greatest nation in the world. There is more opportunity for success here than anywhere else. If you can't make it here, you won't make it anywhere.

If Prof's numbers are correct, almost 85% of Americans are somehow, some way paying for health insurance. In a nation of 300 million plus, how can that be a bad number? I agree that insurance is grossly over priced. I am a small business owner myself. I know first hand how expensive it is.

But you don't hear me whining about it looking for a hand out either. If I'm going to have health insurance, that means I might have to give up something less important which is a decision that I am responsible for.

I totally agree with your personal accountability point. We must be accountable for our actions...if I kill someone because I am street racing, I must suffer the consequences. If I smoke, and if the government is right that 50,000 US citizens a year die annually due to second hand smoke, I should be held accountable, and if I am morbidly obese I should have to pay more for my health care because I am part of the cause of higher rates for my company. Those things are also personal accountability.

But would you consider if appropriate if only 85% of law abiding people in our nation were allowed free speech, or the right to carry arms, or vote? If you can consider the health care issue as a right rather than a privilege that might to some degree moderate your position...and you may not be able to reach that point. But if it is your child that cannot get that very expensive procedure because of your inability to pay, you may decide to reconsider.