Hillary's Health Care Proposal

lightningeater said:
If Prof's numbers are correct, almost 85% of Americans are somehow, some way paying for health insurance. In a nation of 300 million plus, how can that be a bad number? I agree that insurance is grossly over priced. I am a small business owner myself. I know first hand how expensive it is.
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Now think of healthcare insurance as gasoline.....

Your credit rating is checked before you purchase. Where one person is paying 2.50 per gallon. You have to pay 5.15. Because your circumstances are not as good as someone else's.

And that my friend is why a lot of people don't have coverage.

Jeff
 
Hilary now says that her horrible judgment in her last proposal is experience and a lesson learned :D I have read over all of this and waited a few days to let it soak in. In theory the proposal sounds like a awesome deal....Will it ever happen like that....Not a Fart's chance in a hurricane :D While I personally have great disdain to wards the Clinton's in general...This actually makes sense and it will never happen because it does. If she does win the Presidency it's my belief that she will be assassinated in the first 6 months of office. I am a Republican and everyone knows my love for Uncle Ronnie :D :rock: So I wont piss off OCbob of by saying anything further about Reagan:D

But I am at the same time very happy to see that at least 1 democrat has a new idea finally and not running on the same party platform that has been in place since the Kennedy administration....Now if we could just get 1 of them to actually follow thru on a campaign promise I just might have to vote for Obama....Because the Republican party has no new worthy blood, nobody inspires me and the fact they court the Christian right wing end of the party with such fervor makes me Ill.....Bunch of hypocrites :(
 
Mike has hit on the point that I have been trying to make...without regard to who has pushed this proposal forward...it is the direction we will have to go at some point and the sooner the better...George W. would earn some degree of respect back if he could arrive at the same position that The Sickness has...hell he would even become a hero to many if he said that he was going to try to start the process that has been proposed...but I don't think that will happen either.

Mikey I fear you are right. We will never get this plan acted upon. But at some point many of its provisions will have to be enacted...the sooner we start the dialog the sooner we will start to gain consensus and begin the process of moving towards a solution...

I am so tempted to start threads in the same manner about: social security, malpractice reform, workers comp fraud, MEDICARE funding, the National Debt, global warming, overfishing of oceans, mercury pollution, the use of nuclear energy, re-certifying DDT, vaccination of young women to prevent HPV....

Damn, I could really bring this forum to its knees...

But Patrick and Jack would slash my tires, disable my Roe, and put a governor on my Volvo if I did...

So many issues, so little time left....
 
I don't always post Manusha :D I actually make a vaild point once every 3,451 posts....I would hate to have anyone think I am not the village idiot ;) :D
 
TheSickness said:
I don't always post Manusha :D I actually make a vaild point once every 3,451 posts....I would hate to have anyone think I am not the village idiot ;) :D
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The word is "minutiae", dammit.............! :p ;) :confused:

Good morning to you all...........

D
 
Django said:
The word is "minutiae", dammit.............! :p ;) :confused:

Good morning to you all...........

D
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Remember that permanent Mulligan that you issued me on April 14, 2005 :D ;) I can dig the post up if you would like sir :D :D :D
 
TheSickness said:
Remember that permanent Mulligan that you issued me on April 14, 2005 :D ;) I can dig the post up if you would like sir :D :D :D
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I was merely providing spellcheck services........in my own way.....:D

(April 14, 2005 my ass...... nice try, though.....;) )

D
 
OK, here you go, I'm gonna throw my own proposal out there. Let's see anybody argue with this. (I'm not going to worry about how to fund this yet, but we all know that there is a whole lot of money that already comes into the gov't coffers that just gets redirected to friend's pockets, let's start there.)

Universal healthcare for all US citizens under 18 years of age. Every child in this country should have full access to healthcare. Not a single child in this country should ever succumb to a medical issue that could have been either prevented or cured. Every child in this country should be seen by a qualified doctor at least once a year. Every child should receive all preventative health care that is available.


I don't have figures, but I'd be willing to bet that by simply providing preventative healthcare to all children we would offset the cost in savings when major health issues are not caught until they are in difficult if not impossible stages.

So who has a problem with that?

See, it really isn't that I am concerned about myself being without healthcare, but it scares the shit out of me to think that it might have devastating effects on my children.
 
OCBob said:
OK, here you go, I'm gonna throw my own proposal out there. Let's see anybody argue with this. (I'm not going to worry about how to fund this yet, but we all know that there is a whole lot of money that already comes into the gov't coffers that just gets redirected to friend's pockets, let's start there.)

Universal healthcare for all US citizens under 18 years of age. Every child in this country should have full access to healthcare. Not a single child in this country should ever succumb to a medical issue that could have been either prevented or cured. Every child in this country should be seen by a qualified doctor at least once a year. Every child should receive all preventative health care that is available.


I don't have figures, but I'd be willing to bet that by simply providing preventative healthcare to all children we would offset the cost in savings when major health issues are not caught until they are in difficult if not impossible stages.

So who has a problem with that?

See, it really isn't that I am concerned about myself being without healthcare, but it scares the shit out of me to think that it might have devastating effects on my children.
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Nothing wrong with your proposal...it addresses part of the problem and is probably a bipartisan proposal that would have a shot at being supported...of course the devil will be in the detail...but let's rise above that at this point. Your concept is pretty much what several of the republicans running for our highest office are offering and so is one democratic aspirant.

So no problem...except that it is only about 10 percent of the problem. A great starting point but does not address the endemic problems with the health care delivery system. You might even be able to get hospitals, insurance companies and physicians to buy in...because no one wants to face an angry Mother. The fact is that any assertive Mother can now get whatever she wants for her child. I frequently met with Mothers behind closed doors and my standard line was, "whatever is needed by your child will be provided without regard to you ability to pay." But then I would add that to the uncompensated care list and that would be added to our charges to the insurance companies during our negotiations, and it would be added to our request for funds from the city for indigent care, and it would be listed when we did fund raisers and put the arm on the wealthy for donations...

Someone will pay...or eventually the system will grind to a halt...its all about cost shifting to the most capable payer...you the American public.
 
Prof said:
But would you consider if appropriate if only 85% of law abiding people in our nation were allowed free speech, or the right to carry arms, or vote? If you can consider the health care issue as a right rather than a privilege that might to some degree moderate your position...and you may not be able to reach that point. But if it is your child that cannot get that very expensive procedure because of your inability to pay, you may decide to reconsider.
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I'm sorry but I don't consider health care a right. It's a service offered that a consumer must pay for in some way. And I don't necessarily agree with your analogy of my child needing an expensive procedure. It's federal law that no one can be turned away due to their ability to pay.

But there again, that child would be my responsiblity, and I would have to find a way for the procedure to take place...All back to the accountability issue...
 
lightningeater said:
I'm sorry but I don't consider health care a right. It's a service offered that a consumer must pay for in some way. And I don't necessarily agree with your analogy of my child needing an expensive procedure. It's federal law that no one can be turned away due to their ability to pay.

But there again, that child would be my responsiblity, and I would have to find a way for the procedure to take place...All back to the accountability issue...
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That would be great, but like I said. Insurance isn't the same price for all.
 
MYuGiOh Motorsports said:
That would be great, but like I said. Insurance isn't the same price for all.
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It is starting out, but when you have poor medical history or if you don't take care of yourself then the price goes up. Completely understand that. Once again, each individuals responsiblity.
 
lightningeater said:
It is starting out, but when you have poor medical history or if you don't take care of yourself then the price goes up. Completely understand that. Once again, each individuals responsiblity.
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You are misguided.

So if the Wife and I had a child that was 8 weeks premature and the health problems started from day one. My little individual plan that renews each year and goes up at a rate of 133%.

I guess I should have pulled the plug on him while he was still at Primary Childrens Hospital.

How dare I have a child that was not born perfectly healthy like yours.
 
Not what I'm saying at all. I don't agree that it is right for the insurance companies to do that. However, it is what they do. If you don't have control of the rates, you have no choice but to pay them(or not).

I would never think that you should "pull the plug" on a child, but that child is YOURS AND YOURS ALONE. You are responsible for that child, no matter his/her health condition born with or not. Which means if you want health insurance and the rates are higher than a healthy child, you have to find a way to pay for it, or just not have it.

That means making life decisions that allow you to succeed, and/or making sacrifices for less important things in your life.
 
I'll pray that you never find yourself on the other side of your coin

Jeff

This is not meant as disrespectful. I've just been in the industry (Helathcare) long enough to know that even the healthiest people can find themselves on the short side of life. Even after doing everything right.

Take Care
 
lightningeater said:
Not what I'm saying at all. I don't agree that it is right for the insurance companies to do that. However, it is what they do. If you don't have control of the rates, you have no choice but to pay them(or not).

I would never think that you should "pull the plug" on a child, but that child is YOURS AND YOURS ALONE. You are responsible for that child, no matter his/her health condition born with or not. Which means if you want health insurance and the rates are higher than a healthy child, you have to find a way to pay for it, or just not have it.

That means making life decisions that allow you to succeed, and/or making sacrifices for less important things in your life.
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So you are of the opinion that no one needs to help anyone else. If someone does not have health insurance because they cannot afford it or their employer does not offer it, that their children or another family member should not be able to get care when they are ill...that seems to be what you are saying...and I must be mis-reading because I don't think that anyone believes that...
 
MYuGiOh Motorsports said:
I'll pray that you never find yourself on the other side of your coin

Jeff

This is not meant as disrespectful. I've just been in the industry (Helathcare) long enough to know that even the healthiest people can find themselves on the short side of life. Even after doing everything right.

Take Care
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I truly appreciate that...And I pray that no one here ever does either. But we must play with the hand we are dealt.

Prof, please don't think that I am a selfish person because I am not...Of course I would without a second thought help anyone that needs it...But giving someone a hand out and genuinely helping someone are two totally different things.
 
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