Geodrillers HP problems

[evanandretti]

can the oem cam be reworked? or do u have to get a whole new cam? i am far from a mechanic so sorry if these are stupid questions.

but the timming/degree thing, is there a chance it can just be corrected or is the OEM cam junk???

You read my mind buddy

 

[Geodriller]

Well buddy I am unsure if that flywheel cured the truck. Been doing alot of driving to break it in. Got about 300 miles on it shifting as much as possible. Last time I took it out I did a couple pulls... And I know it grabs a hell of alot better.. I still don't think it's up to par. Especially when it's hot. Before I thought I just got used to the power... But when its warm she gets pretty lazy. I know they all do that, but if it's low on power to begin with shed really be noticeable when warm.

Geo when my flywheel is broken in I will copy those pulls you sent me... I think we are pretty close (when you were stock).

I will hopefully be dynoing soon, as of right now I don't have the numbers to prove anything.

I know one thing.... When I'm rolling in first gear in upper rpm range and I put her to the floor the thing should ping off the rev limiter instantly. Certain roads she will break loose, but nothing too exciting. I know my toyos don't grip that much.

Unfortuantly around here I have no one to go to for these motors, so I will be relying on you guys

i agre on the heat thing, my tires dont even have to be warm. if the road is hot the truck wont even spin its tires in first if i am alredy over 15mph. truck is noticably slower than i have ever felt it. so it is either the heat. or i just have some seriouse internal problems. thinkin bout just sellin the fuckin truck. havent even scratched the surface and i know this project is just gunna piss me off. but i just love the truck. most fun and sweetest vehicle i have evr had the privalage to own.

 

[Geodriller]

You read my mind buddy

the tech i talked to said if the cam is off as far as it can possibly be with the truck still running properly you will still only gain 15-20hp if you time it in perfectly. some trustworthy people here disagree with that. and oldcolt made a HELL of a diff going to a stryker cam. and he also said when they tested the compresion before buttoning up the engine after the swap, they could then tell something was changed and better.

i just wish i knew more about engines, sometimes i feel so lost.:dontknow:

 

[rare03srt10]

Fuel/Timing is everything man. If that sh!ts off your gonna lose ALOT of power.

 

[FATJACK]

Roz's 06 dynoed 460 rwhp with NO tune NO NOTHING except all cats removed. Truck ran damn good.

 

[evanandretti]

Geo what's the build date of your truck

 

[oldcolt]

Just so you know, the Striker cam did not give me the 100 horse gain. It sure has changed the performance of the engine though. A cam should give you 8-10HP or so. Getting the timing and tune right made a huge difference.

I called a local Dodge Dealer a spoke to the viper tech. The book says about 16 hours for a cam swap. He said it was unlikely they could do it in that time and if there was any unforseen issues, more time would be needed. That is pulling the engine BTW. They will not change the cam in the truck, as it adds too many hours to the job. They charge $130/hr CDN. That does not include parts, shop supplies or taxes.

I hope this helps folks. The cam swap is not a quick job, people's time costs money. We have several talented people on these sites and I would hope people realize their methods or opinions may differ, but in the end they want us to have the same thing....awesome trucks!:rock::rock::rock:

 

[Geodriller]

Geo what's the build date of your truck

il have to check the registry onthat one bud. gimme a couple minutes

Just so you know, the Striker cam did not give me the 100 horse gain. It sure has changed the performance of the engine though. A cam should give you 8-10HP or so. Getting the timing and tune right made a huge difference.


Can this be done by showing torrie my a/f through the gears and canb be adjusted, or does it physicaly need to be adjusted with the timing of the crank/cam???








I called a local Dodge Dealer a spoke to the viper tech. The book says about 16 hours for a cam swap. He said it was unlikely they could do it in that time and if there was any unforseen issues, more time would be needed. That is pulling the engine BTW. They will not change the cam in the truck, as it adds too many hours to the job. They charge $130/hr CDN. That does not include parts, shop supplies or taxes.

I hope this helps folks. The cam swap is not a quick job, people's time costs money. We have several talented people on these sites and I would hope people realize their methods or opinions may differ, but in the end they want us to have the same thing....awesome trucks!:rock::rock::rock:

so very true my friend...well spoken:rock::rock::rock:

 

[Geodriller]

Geo what's the build date of your truck

Build date:

06/21/2006 at 11:00A.M.
2006 Night Runner RC #258 of 400:itsme::itsme::itsme:


why, whatsup. u got a theory???

 

[VENOMOUS1 RACING]

Stink is right as far as the timing. It can be a tooth off and produce dramatic results! Basically you can either be closing your valves early and letting a nice air/fuel mix escape the exhaust, or have exhaust pushed into your intake charge a dillute your a/f mix. All occurring in the combustion chamber. These events need to be dead nuts or power is off through the powerband. Actually the whole powerband can be shifted higher or lower. I think most cases, like mine, possibly, are retarded and not making power till higher in the rpm band. I owned an Iron 10 back in 96 that had gobs of torque but nit the Hp ours have. I think us having an intake designed for a car don't help at all. Chevy for example, using the same basic engines have taller runners for trucks vs car counterparts.

My clutch test is close to stinks,but instead of dumping the clutch, chug along about 45 in 6th and just mash gas. It'll bog and go, or slip and RPMs climb.

 

[Troy's QC SRT]

Bro I really hink you should hit the track and see what she runs before you get crazy into trouble shoooting.... ii mean what will that cost you verusu other inspections? If you hav. Your dyno slip reading low 400's but your. Running a low 13 on streets I would say your truck is running strong

 

[Geodriller]

Stink is right as far as the timing. It can be a tooth off and produce dramatic results! Basically you can either be closing your valves early and letting a nice air/fuel mix escape the exhaust, or have exhaust pushed into your intake charge a dillute your a/f mix. All occurring in the combustion chamber. These events need to be dead nuts or power is off through the powerband. Actually the whole powerband can be shifted higher or lower. I think most cases, like mine, possibly, are retarded and not making power till higher in the rpm band. I owned an Iron 10 back in 96 that had gobs of torque but nit the Hp ours have. I think us having an intake designed for a car don't help at all. Chevy for example, using the same basic engines have taller runners for trucks vs car counterparts.

My clutch test is close to stinks,but instead of dumping the clutch, chug along about 45 in 6th and just mash gas. It'll bog and go, or slip and RPMs climb.

if my truck is on the right tooth, can it be helped with the tune. but if it is off, that test u were talkin about, (forget the name), will be the way to go and get thecam and crank working perferctly together by matchin the teeth and gitting the timming dow right??

is there a chance it just need tuned with the timing, and the cam doesnt have to come out and the engine can stay in the truck. i believe that deffinatly make the project alot cheaper.


BTW, does anyone know a shop fairly close to me that can be trusted. dont want to give my truck to a shade tree mechanic

 

[Geodriller]

Bro I really hink you should hit the track and see what she runs before you get crazy into trouble shoooting.... ii mean what will that cost you verusu other inspections? If you hav. Your dyno slip reading low 400's but your. Running a low 13 on streets I would say your truck is running strong

yeah, me and eddie were just talkin bout that. with my mods i should be very deep into the 13's right. arent there some RC's out there gettin into the 12's with my mods???

 

[rottenronnie]

I know you are frustrated so I will post this one up.

First, I don't know if you have the same issue as Burt. Not from way up here..
I DO know there are some pretty sleepy 2006 Viper cars and Viper trucks out there.
If the end-run (2006) of the Gen IIIs were having trouble meeting emissions (they were), a quick-fix is to release the engines with cams installed later than they should be. It was really common during the early emission years for manufacturers to do this and it works by dropping dynamic/working cylinder pressures which in turn reduces oxides of nitrogen, a main pollutant. Small-Block Fords ground 9 degrees retard into their cams years ago.
If vehicles don't pass emissions, they don't get sold.
I have no proof Dodge did this and that information will never be public, not after the engine has been discontinued, 6 years later.
I do know Burt's truck was released like that. And I do know it kicks the shit out of power.

There was nothing wrong with the cam in Burt's 2006 RC.
There were tell-tale signs of problems in the engine once we opened it up.
When the cam was actually degreed (yes the dots were lined up when we first looked), it was found to be ground retarded which severely impacted the performance of his engine.

Before the work-
It felt like a low compression 440 to drive. Punch it in FIRST gear at 20 m.p.h. and it sounded like a water buffalo in heat. No tire spin.
It was a pig on fuel.
It produced very little heat; a cat could fall asleep on the intake after running it through the gears at w.o.t.
A compression test/leak down was inconclusive.
It wouldn't respond to bolt-ons (headers) or anything else we threw on it. I mean it wouldn't respond. Period. Headers for example did NOTHING.
It wouldn't respond to really aggressive tunes, AT ALL.

It runs well now, makes great power and gets pretty decent gas mileage.
There is no miracle cam that is going to give you as much power as Burt gained unless there was a problem with the cam in the engine to start with.

Good luck with your quest.

Ronnie

 

[Geodriller]

so do you have any suggestions on where i should start. what is the cheapest way to find out if the cam is retarded. is opening her up the only way

also,, i likely will never go FI, i do howeer eventualy want to make this thing a monster, end goal would proly bw around 600hp. do i need a special cam for that, do i need a billit cam for this in the future. If im guna change the cam, i want to make sure im not gunna do it again. but does my truck require an expensive cam for what i need i for? can my cam be taken out and reworked? should i check the timing first? will testing the combustion chambers do anything for me?

also, are there any other things this could be?

thanks for all ur help

 

[wesalbert]

Lets keep this on topic guys.

 

[rottenronnie]

so do you have any suggestions on where i should start. what is the cheapest way to find out if the cam is retarded. is opening her up the only way

also,, i likely will never go FI, i do howeer eventualy want to make this thing a monster, end goal would proly bw around 600hp. do i need a special cam for that, do i need a billit cam for this in the future. If im guna change the cam, i want to make sure im not gunna do it again. but does my truck require an expensive cam for what i need i for? can my cam be taken out and reworked? should i check the timing first? will testing the combustion chambers do anything for me?

also, are there any other things this could be?

thanks for all ur help

Have you had your truck to a dyno? What did it do?
Using leaded race fuel with cats will plug them pretty quick, just as an example of a power killer.
A good billet cam will cost around 900 or so which is cheaper than a new o.e.m. cam (around 1200).
IF cam timing isn't a problem, it is an expensive test.
Getting TO the cam sprockets on these engines is no simple task because of the oil pickup inside the oil pan (it has to come off before the timing cover can). It was WAY easier to do this on the older Gen II Viper engines.

Because of the low bleed-down lifters, a compression test is inconclusive.
I don't (unfortunately) have a quick and easy test for you.
The biggest indicators are: The engines don't produce much heat,
they don't respond to modifications and they have low power numbers (and of course lousy gas mileage).

Ronnie

 

[VENOMOUS1 RACING]

Ok, no amount of tuning can correct an advanced/retarded cam. Only way to do this is to verify valve events in degree increments. When you purchase an aftermarket cam you are given a spec card which has all pertinent info on each valve event opening and closing and point of max lift in degrees. A degree wheel (based on 360 degrees, circle) simply attached to the crank snout and a pointer affixed to the block will tell the story.

The cam is likely fine, but you may as well replace it while you have it torn down that far unless you dint have the spare 1k$ for cam,pushrods and valve springs. In that case degreeing the factory cam can provide generous results if installed or ground wrong. I think they may have purposefully ground them wrong and as I said there is a tattletale tool called a Cam Dr that can verify all specs to ensure it is ground right.

 

[VENOMOUS1 RACING]

Ok, no amount of tuning can correct an advanced/retarded cam. Only way to do this is to verify valve events in degree increments. When you purchase an aftermarket cam you are given a spec card which has all pertinent info on each valve event opening and closing and point of max lift in degrees. A degree wheel (based on 360 degrees, circle) simply attached to the crank snout and a pointer affixed to the block will tell the story.

The cam is likely fine, but you may as well replace it while you have it torn down that far unless you dint have the spare 1k$ for cam,pushrods and valve springs. In that case degreeing the factory cam can provide generous results if installed or ground wrong. I think they may have purposefully ground them wrong and as I said there is a tattletale tool called a Cam Dr that can verify all specs to ensure it is ground right.

 

[yellow446]

Ok well if you want 600 hp down the road , dont do nothing to your truck now . When you wabt to build a motor do everything on ones . That would be an easy way .