BBK or JTSVP TB?

[Angelo621]

I want to upgrade my stock throttle body. Should I go with one from BBK or JTSVP? They’re around the same price. Sounds like the BBK runs into idle issues..? What are your thoughts?

 

[Psycho1122]

Search the forum. TONS of info to be found.

Cheers.

 

[Angelo621]

Thanks, I’m discovering most if not all of my questions have already been asked here. and here I am thinking I was special

 

[SRT2SLOW]

I have a bbk for sale.

 

[VIPR PWR]

I bought a bbk when they first came out ... some had problems with it sticking on idle ... I have had no problems with it ... I still wish the jtsvp would have been available at that time lol I would have gone that route

 

[Snake Charmer#04]

I have a 04 2/door silver RAM Srt10... About a year ago. I bought a BBK Throttle Body for my truck and had the same problem... I solve the problem with the throttle sticking. By spraylng the throttle cable with a can of Blaster Chain&Cable Lubricant..Great for moving parts reducing friction on your throttle cable.

 

[Raiiin]

DO NOT GET BBK. product is trash company is trash JT likes the trucks builds for the trucks

 

[Srt10650]

I’ve had my BBK TB on for over 2yrs now and have never had an issue with it. I know that the 1st batches had some issues(like idle sticking) and I’m sure they fixed it by now. Here’s a picture for comparison and installed.

 

[505]

I think Dan Fastman ports the OEM. FWIW

 

[Kiwi SRT10]

I have a JTS Venom and have a squeal from the throttle shaft at idle when hot.

 

[CaptnCrash]

I can vouch for Dan [ TheFastMan.com ] work. He does a stellar job and yes, he does the TB's for the Viper trucks. Saves a ton of cash as well.

 

[AMS3]

I can vouch for Dan [ TheFastMan.com ] work. He does a stellar job and yes, he does the TB's for the Viper trucks. Saves a ton of cash as well.

So I just called The Fast Man, and he said I won't need a tune, that the computer has enough parameters to compensate. Is that a true statement?

 

[CaptnCrash]

If all you have in terms of mods is just the TB and maybe a cold air, he is correct. When you start getting into headers, exhaust, cams, heads, and more then yes you will. Dan knows MOPARS very well.

 

[rottenronnie]

The ecu doesn't know what you have done for engine mods but it can compensate for air temperature, barometric pressure, coolant temperature, a/f ratio and the like, to a point.
Proper head work and a good cam choice can make a big difference in power production. A word of advice: As you are dealing with a TRUCK, look at mods that favor torque over horsepower.
Choose a tuner that understands these engines and has direct experience with them.
Have fun.

 

[rottenronnie]

The Captain is correct.
No tune required for air kits nor throttle body changes.

 

[AMS3]

Good info guys, you know your stuff. So far, the only "mods" is the K&N filter. I plan to have B&B headers with no cats, only resonators in the next few months. I didn't think that I would need a tune for exhaust. If I do need a tune, what Tuner do you recommend? On my SLT, I used Bully Dog. Also, Ronnie, what mods will give me more torque? I'm savvy with normal engine stuff, but when it comes to performance, I'm a dope.

 

[rottenronnie]

• Long-tube headers will improve torque.
• An increase in compression will improve torque.
• Increases in breathing (in the r.p.m. area of concern), improve torque.
• Camshaft choice can dictate at which r.p.m. torque will peak and can encourage torque production. They can also kill low r.p.m. torque in favor of higher horsepower- TO A POINT.
• More Ignition advance can create torque.
• Increases in displacement create torque (as can a longer than stock "stroker" crankshaft). *This is not an inexpensive option.

IF a "high peak horsepower" cam profile is used, it requires r.p.m. to produce the horsepower. Low r.p.m. torque drops off though, which is NOT really what you need in a heavy truck. So between torque and horsepower you have a see saw: Low-end torque can go up but higher r.p.m. horsepower will likely drop off and vice-versa. In a naturally aspirated engine, that is how it is.

Forced induction (turbos/superchargers) fill the cylinders early (producing torque) but they are at the mercy of the rest of the engine to see how much power can be produced at a higher r.p.m. IF you install a forced induction system on an engine that can also breathe, it will fly!
Look at Dom's truck: Striker-R cylinder heads (big breathers properly designed) PLUS forced induction= 180+ m.p.h. 1/4 mile times (with very few passes on it). That same forced induction setup with a stock set of Viper Gen III heads and the performance numbers would be CONSIDERABLY lower. Again, breathing is a huge factor for horsepower production.

I picked up 143 wheel horsepower by changing cylinder heads and a complimenting (mild) cam profile on my personal SRT-10. Unfortunately, the heads I am are harder to come by and are (arguably) expensive. It depends how badly you want to add 200 flywheel horsepower without using any power adders!! It also shows you how much difference breathing (and proper combustion) makes.

You don't hear about semis needing to shift at high r.p.m. in order to make their power as diesels build torque down low. They produce gobs of cylinder pressure at low r.p.m. (where it's needed) and not a great deal of horsepower, up top, in comparison.

Actually, there is no such thing as horsepower, only torque.
Reciprocating engines create a twisting force (torque).
That twisting force is created by cylinder pressure.
Horsepower is "Torque measured over time". Once torque starts to fall off as r.p.m. climbs, horsepower "takes over".
If the torque being generated can be carried into a relatively high r.p.m. (a function of breathing), horsepower increases will also follow.

Diesels are big on torque and less so in the horsepower arena because of breathing (or lack of it). Their whole induction setup relies on small sized components (valves and ports) to encourage early cylinder-filling. That small size also prevents big horsepower numbers because small can only do so much and eventually becomes a restriction to breathing, limiting horsepower.

Take a straw and blow: Lots of pressure out of the end.
Now, take a 2" pipe and do the same thing (almost no pressure out the other end) Same straw, same guy, same volume of air but a vastly different result. A crude example but it might help to illustrate the concept of an engine breathing.

Naturally aspirate engines rely on atmospheric pressure to fill the cylinder once the intake valve opens. Smaller sizes encourage velocity and early (low r.p.m.) cylinder filling which equals early (low r.p.m. torque production).

Continuing on the diesel example:
IF you spent a lot of money on diesel cylinder heads, horsepower can rise substantially but so does the r.p.m. required to obtain that horsepower. BUT diesels also have the burden of HEAVY internal engine components, and to build one properly takes considerable money.

Viper engines make good torque, fortunately for us. They don't need to rev overly high to produce power.

Man, there is a LOT to this and I'm just touching on very few highlights and some information may even seem contradictory because it's difficult to provide information in absolutes without looking at the bigger picture.

If you are changing flow through the engine (exhaust will do this), you should have it tuned.
Most of these guys will give you a tune based on your current setup and then send you others if you change more components (within reason). If you are planning some major mods, do those first then get a tune for that (on a dyno is best).

It have tried the guys on this site and my personal preference is Chris Jensen out of Los Angeles.
Guys here have also had good results from Torrie.

Hope some of this helps.

If you have questions, fire away.

Season's Greetings

Ronnie

 

[AMS3]

Season's Greetings to you as well, and thank you so much for the tutorial!

 

[Psycho1122]

Good write up Ronnie!

Help remind the guys that the ECU keeps the engine PIG RICH (under 11-1 A/F) above 4K to rev limiter. OEM safety cushion. Even after adding my full B&B with Hi-flow Cats, my A/F wideband showed the stock AND canned tunes were still fat at 11-1. So even if you do not throw in a "tune". You will not hurt anything. However, you will leave high RPM thrust on the table. A GOOD custom tune will actually lean you out (safely) to around 12:6 - 12:7-1 with fuel trim and timing advance.

Merry Christmas!

 

[rottenronnie]

Yes, my own truck was in the 10s when it was stock, as many are.
The big thing here is the cooling (detonation protection) offered by a rich mixture.
It runs pretty tight now (high 12s with the current tune) but I've always liked "lean best power".
A drop in heat range is also good insurance when power starts to climb.