Dual sensor wideband?

[rottenronnie]

And that’s good to know about the bottom timing gear, wouldn’t think that it’d be that hard to remove with the proper puller.

The bottom pulley requires a very robust puller and because of the lack of room around it, a specific puller (as per the service manual) is best. The timing chains on these engines seem to be worn out when they are brand new (quite sloppy). In speaking with John Edwards (Chrysler/FIAT Engine builder), the crank and cam move away from each other at operating temperatures on these engines and the chain gets properly snug.

 

[rottenronnie]

AMS3

I will try to offer you good advice based on my experiences with performance vehicles over the past 50+ years and direct experience with these particular engines. There are lots of guys on this forum that will also offer you good advice and share their experiences.

Too bad the Forum attendance has dropped off so much, it was lots of fun years back.

 

[rottenronnie]

Jumpinjoe628

No, not the head gaskets that are supposed to allow a cam change without pulling the heads.
The head gaskets that come from the Dealers.

 

[Jumpingjoe628]

Jumpinjoe628

No, not the head gaskets that are supposed to allow a cam change without pulling the heads.
The head gaskets that come from the Dealers.

I don’t mean changing cams, just the lifters.

Head gasket

• Jumpingjoe628
• Jan 7, 2020

Custom MLS head gasket upgrade from The Viper Store

 

[rottenronnie]

You can hold each of the 20 lifters up with magnets to change the camshaft without pulling the heads. You can do that now.

You won't be able to find true TDC for degreeing the new camshaft however as you can't access the #1 piston without pulling the head.

Personally, I would not use the magnet method for this (and other) reasons.

 

[rottenronnie]

There was an issue with oldcolt's engine (a 2006) where the cam was installed way back (from the factory). This is an old trick used to force the engines to pass emissions. That engine was "less than powerful" you could say, AND got horrible gas mileage.
Considering what an adventure it is to change a cam in a Gen III (not nearly as bad in a Gen ii), sliding a new performance cam in without being able to degree it actually would have made things worse for his engine. A lot of effort to makes things worse.
Lining up the marks on your cam and crank sprockets when installing a camshaft and calling it good, is NEVER an option.

 

[GSJake]

There was an issue with oldcolt's engine (a 2006) where the cam was installed way back (from the factory). This is an old trick used to force the engines to pass emissions.

This and the fast bleed lifter trick to make the cam "smaller" at idle?

 

[rottenronnie]

That is right.

 

[GSJake]

There was an issue with oldcolt's engine (a 2006) where the cam was installed way back (from the factory). This is an old trick used to force the engines to pass emissions.

I did the research and get how the lifters (slow vs fast) work... can you elaborate on "the cam was installed way back" as in it was degreed wrong?
Thanks!

 

[rottenronnie]

Oldcolt's engine:

The cam and crank sprockets were in perfect alignment according to the marks on each sprocket when the factory cam was originally installed.
That would suggest "all is well" IF you were using the marks as accurate.

Using the positive stop method (which is physically stopping the piston at the top of the bore) with some angle iron bolted to the block, you can accurately determine where true TDC is off of a degree wheel bolted to the crank snout. Roll the engine over (manually) until the piston stops and take a reading off the degree wheel. Roll it over the other way until it stops take a reading. The midway point of those 2 readings is true Top Dead Center. This system cancels out all factors like bearing clearances and gives you TRUE TDC. Without knowing that, your efforts to properly degree a camshaft are at risk.

 

[rottenronnie]

His cam was factory installed in the late (or retarded) position.

The correct installed position would have been advanced by several degrees to provide the proper camshaft centerline.

As an installer you can turn the camshaft slightly one way or the other from the centerline to advance or retard it. Advancing a cam provides the timing events earlier and can provide better low rpm response (often at the expense of top-end power).

 

[AMS3]

If you look in the pic below, you will see the edge of the head gasket is gold. If yours are black, chances are your heads have never been off. Also, straight pipes on these engines don't sound very good. If you are going with B&B, buy the whole system.

I don't see the photo, must be something wrong with my internet.

 

[AMS3]

Speaking of really bad sounding exhaust.....this was from a dyno day that Ronnie and I hosted a few years back.

Ugg, yeah I see what you mean! Sounds like a rice burner to me. So, what about Magnaflo Hi Flow mufflers, or maybe the Outlaw by Flowmaster?

 

[AMS3]

AMS3

I will try to offer you good advice based on my experiences with performance vehicles over the past 50+ years and direct experience with these particular engines. There are lots of guys on this forum that will also offer you good advice and share their experiences.

Too bad the Forum attendance has dropped off so much, it was lots of fun years back.

Trust me, I'm absorbing all of the info you guys are telling me. As for the exhaust, after listening to the video, I WILL be installing mufflers.

 

[AMS3]

That is right.

So would slow bleed lifters help?

 

[rottenronnie]

JMB Justin has done considerable testing and the nod goes to the high bleeds for power production in most cases.

 

[rottenronnie]

You can save some money here by reusing the oem lifters.

 

[AMS3]

His cam was factory installed in the late (or retarded) position.

The correct installed position would have been advanced by several degrees to provide the proper camshaft centerline.

As an installer you can turn the camshaft slightly one way or the other from the centerline to advance or retard it. Advancing a cam provides the timing events earlier and can provide better low rpm response (often at the expense of top-end power).

So with this cam, will a tune be required, or can the computer compensate for it?

 

[rottenronnie]

The computer doesn't "know" what you have done to the engine. The camshaft we are talking about provides plenty of vacuum at idle and won't create a tuning issue. I would definitely get a tune once you decide what you are going to do.

 

[Longshot]

OMG! There are people in this forum? I thought the SRT-10 guys were all gone. Thank you for the tip about the HPT beta. Ill be plugging mine in to check it out! Ive got my dual wide bands ready to go in. I just picked up some used ARH long tubes to mount them in but Ill have to fab some mid pipes. My header exits are not 3", they are 2.5" so Ill have to mod the headers.
Cheers!