Heads

banhammer said:
not a bit sir, in my experience I have run into the same problems , and I have learned instead of making my mistakes to examine and ask the technician that I had doing the work, sorry if it came across in the wrong way :itsme:
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I had talked to the head of BBK r&e and he was still mistaken about the car vs truck parts it's called being human. Which brings me back to where I started I know thare are guys that have done cool ass stuff on her and I would guess at lest one of them would have tried to use the car heads on the truck motor. But ether way let's drop this get back to the topic of getting more power out of these motors trucks.
 
chargerman426 said:
I had talked to the head of BBK r&e and he was still mistaken about the car vs truck parts it's called being human. Which brings me back to where I started I know thare are guys that have done cool ass stuff on her and I would guess at lest one of them would have tried to use the car heads on the truck motor. But ether way let's drop this get back to the topic of getting more power out of these motors trucks.
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agreed sir, if you do decide to port the heads , the porter of course is your choice , but go ahead and replace the valves with oversize units, its not that much more on cost and you get a little benifit, the valve springs also you should match to the cam that you decide on, but do not go with an off the shelf cam, it would be wise to get with your builder and decide what type cam you want and how you would like your engine to perform, small changes can result in radical changes
 
chargerman426 said:
Are the viper car heads interchangeable with our truck motors? I'm thinking about buying a set of used viper heads and having them port and polished.
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The Gen IIIs are basically a factory-ported Gen II head. They don't have any glaring deficiencies just as they are. They have a 230cc Intake Port and work well with 2.04/1.60 valve sizes which is the "normal size" when modifying them as there isn't a lot of room inside the o.e.m. combustion chamber. Intake Flow is 270 c.f.m. @ 28" W.C.

Done properly, you can expect a 65 'ish h.p. increase and another 20 'ish with a matching cam and another 25 'ish with a moderate boost in compression. You can juggle those numbers up or down. You may not want to have to buzz the engine to make power and instead try to build torque through velocity.
But I don't know what you are after as an end goal...

(Call Greg Good).

Ronnie
 
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rottenronnie said:
The Gen IIIs are basically a factory-ported Gen II head. They don't have any glaring deficiencies just as they are. They have a 230cc Intake Port and work well with 2.04/1.60 valve sizes which is the "normal size" when modifying them as there isn't a lot of room inside the o.e.m. combustion chamber. Intake Flow is 270 c.f.m. @ 28" W.C.

Done properly, you can expect a 65 'ish h.p. increase and another 20 'ish with a matching cam and another 25 'ish with a moderate boost in compression.
(Call Greg Good).

Ronnie
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Ive heard of Greg Good before. I've heard his work good and he charges for it too. I know with heads in particular you get what you pay for but I don see the 2k ish he wants for me at least. I'm guessing your talking about decking the heads to get more compression right?
 
chargerman426 said:
Ive heard of Greg Good before. I've heard his work good and he charges for it too. I know with heads in particular you get what you pay for but I don see the 2k ish he wants for me at least. I'm guessing your talking about decking the heads to get more compression right?
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Yes, the new head gaskets will get you to an even 10:1 (up from 9.6:1) and if you want to cut them, you can go higher.

P.S. It may be best to just leave it at 10:1 (for general pump-gas use in a truck) as the stock chambers are NOT a fast-burn chamber and it depends on available fuels, altitude, tune. etc.
 
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chargerman426 said:
Ive heard of Greg Good before. I've heard his work good and he charges for it too. I know with heads in particular you get what you pay for but I don see the 2k ish he wants for me at least. I'm guessing your talking about decking the heads to get more compression right?
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It is easier to bugger up a set of heads through porting than you may realize if you aren't familiar with them. No disrespect to you (of course) as I have no idea what your background is.
It is persnickety and time consuming work.

I've seen some beautiful looking heads that didn't work worth a shit on an engine !
Go with a porter that has experience with the Viper Heads.

No, the new gaskets will give you an increase of 0.4 without cutting.

Just don't fall into the trap that more flow automatically means more power, because IT DOESN'T. Flow numbers seem to sell heads though...
But there is QUALITY of flow and there is QUANTITY of flow. Choose the first one. :)

That's why I strongly suggest someone like Greg that has worked with these heads for years and knows the results his own work produces..


Ronnie
 
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Does Greg have a site going yet? I know he was talking about getting one going by spring time hopefully... Just curious...
 
ronnie what(if any) gains do you think there'd be from just going to the larger valves without porting, and upping the compression to 10:1.?
 
rottenronnie said:
It is easier to bugger up a set of heads through porting than you may realize. No disrespect to you (of course) as I have no idea what your background is.

That's why I strongly suggest someone like Greg that has worked with these heads for years and knows the results his own work produces..

Just don't fall into the trap that more flow automatically means more power, because IT DOESN'T. Flow numbers seem to sell heads through...
But there is QUALITY of flow and there is QUANTITY of flow. Choose the first one. :)


Ronnie
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Ronnie

You and I sound like we are on the same page with most things. I grew up with my dad bulding a 440 for his 69 charger so i know building for torque is the way to make heavy ass stuff move :D. Back to the heads I know head work is an art more than anything and a guy that doesn't know what he is doing can make the car slower rather than faster. Like I mentioned earlier there is a guy that did my dad's 340 heads for his R/T and that guy is well know around these parts for his head work. Oh and to touch on the what I want as my end goal. Its to keep the reliability it has now if not make it a little better and make some more TQ and HP. Thats why I don't plan on doing the big FI or NOS because I really don't want to go down the road of worrying about the motor. I'm at a spot where I'm going to sit back and try to find a deal on some heads and get them worked when I can.
 
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ARRESTmeRed04 said:
ronnie what(if any) gains do you think there'd be from just going to the larger valves without porting, and upping the compression to 10:1.?
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Not answering for Ronnie but if your in there having work done it wouldn't make much sense not to have some head work done. The smoother the air you get into the combustion chamber the better your power is. The valves will help flow but flow isn't going to help as much as a nice smooth stream of air getting to the cylinder.
 
ARRESTmeRed04 said:
ronnie what(if any) gains do you think there'd be from just going to the larger valves without porting, and upping the compression to 10:1.?
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I have never seen that as the ONLY change to o.e.m. heads and can't give you answer.

The Viper engine seems to respond to every ounce of compression.
 
chargerman426 said:
Ronnie

You and I sound like we are on the same page with most things. I grew up with my dad bulding a 440 for his 69 charger so i know building for torque is the way to make heavy ass stuff move :D. Back to the heads I know head work is an art more than anything and a guy that doesn't know what he is doing can make the car slower rather than faster. Like I mentioned earlier there is a guy that did my dad's 340 heads for his R/T and that guy is well know around these parts for his head work. Oh and to touch on the what I want as my end goal. Its to keep the reliability it has now if not make it a little better and make some more TQ and HP. Thats why I don't plan on doing the big FI or NOS because I really don't want to go down the road of worrying about the motor. I'm at a spot where I'm going to sit back and try to find a deal on some heads and get them worked when I can.
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If I want to check to see if head porting has worked or not, the direct approach is to run them for a while to give them a chance to colour.
Then, pull them off the engine and have a look around. If the burn pattern is decent and covers most of the surface areas of the piston dome and the combustion chamber, the heads work. Seems like a lot of work to some but it is the only way (short of analyzing before and after b.s.f.c. numbers) that I know of, to know for sure.
Dynos can help here too.. You'll want to study before and after TQ numbers...

At the track, improperly ported heads seem to give the net result of a vehicle flying off the line and then losing interest in the whole exercise, lying down and producing "lower than they should be" m.p.h. numbers.

As you know power improvements are cumulative. Sometimes so many components are changed all at once that it becomes impossible to tell which ones produced power and which ones lost power.


Ronnie
 
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chargerman426 said:
Not answering for Ronnie but if your in there having work done it wouldn't make much sense not to have some head work done. The smoother the air you get into the combustion chamber the better your power is. The valves will help flow but flow isn't going to help as much as a nice smooth stream of air getting to the cylinder.
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more of a theoritical question really, i'm going to eventually get some head work done as well was thinking of taking them to Greg since he's only a few hours down the road, just one of the many things that just takes money i don't have yet:(
 
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