Kiwi SRT10 Ram With Hydrogen Kit?

[Ram From Hell]

but it uses energy from the alternator to do it.

I do understand the law of conservation.

In this case, however, is the horsepower loss from a 20amp (or so) increase in draw on the alternator significant?

This really requires some scientific research to be proven one way or another. A vehicle should be dyno'd w/ and w/o the system, while monitoring the AFR (to make sure that isn't just a lean burning engine making the gains).


.

 

[redice2]

as stated this does not replace 100% but to think your motors alternator only produces the exact amount of energy you need is ridiculous. this is more of a scavenger system using un used power to create a small amount of hydrogen to substitute a small part of the fuel used by the vehicle generating a small gain in mpg.

oh yeah side note if you where right scoobert that the vehicle produces the EXACT amount of power you need to drive then every time you put a quick load on it the vehicle would stall trying to instantly draw more than you have.

 

[viperhauler]

actually, my buddy sells a kit (he's a distributor)...no bullshit...and he (and his company) have a legal, binding, notarized, etc. document stating that they will rebuild my motor if it pops because of their kit....they do mostly semi tractors, with the generators, and all that...but he has (and installs) smaller kits...he has two bimmers...a 318vert, and a 325sedan, and both are supplemented with his hydrogen kits....

i just haven't done it yet...not because i'm leery, but because i'm lazy

if you want some real (verified) info, i can get you some....but it's not some 3"pvc and hose clamps

 

[WOT]

how much HP does the truck need to sustain 60mph?

I found an error in my calculations - here is a repost with the new values (and I corrected it above as well):

The biggest kit from scoobert's post makes 50 liters of hydrogen/oxygen mix per hour. Since it is separating hydrogen an oxygen from water, then it is exactly at the right percentages to be recombined during combustion. Since our motors are 8.3 liters, it would take around 24 complete revolutions (12 full cycles, 2 strokes per revolution, 4 stroke motor) at full throttle to use up an hour's worth (50 liters) of production from the kit.

So, at 6000 rpm at full throttle it would used up the full hour's production in less than 1/4 of a second.

So, lets say you just want to supplement by mainly burning gasoline/air and supplementing with hydrogen/oxygen at 10%. And, let's say that you only care about cruising speeds, steady state on the highway.

At 15 mpg at 60 mile per hour, our trucks are burning 4 gallons/hour. At 14.7:1 air fuel ratio by mass, and air at standard temp/press at .01lb/gallon, the truck is consuming 36550 gallons of air per hour plus the 4 gallons of fuel for 36554 gallons of vaporized air fuel mixture. So at 10% supplementation, it would need to produce 3655.4 gallons/hour, times 3.78 liters/gal or 13817 liters/hour.

Since the largest unit produces 50 liters/hour, you would need around 276 of them for 10% supplementation. At 20 amps draw each, that would equal 5520 Amps. At 13V, it would take 717600 watts or about 96 hp to power it (at 100% efficiency). So, you would need around 40 additional alternators and they would draw around 137hp (at 70% alternator efficiency) off the front of the motor.

All of this for only 10% supplementation at steady state highway cruising. Seems like a huge net loss to me....

 

[WOT]

how much HP does the truck need to sustain 60mph?

I don't know how much HP the truck needs to sustain 60, but at 15 MPG, the calculations show how much fuel the truck consumes. In other words, the truck plus the tranny, plus the motor use that amount of fuel. If we knew all the parasitic losses, we could deteremine how much is actually required just to push the truck. The motor alone uses a ton just to idle.

My best guess would be around 30-50 hp to push the truck and tranny.

 

[scoobert]

http://alternativefuels.about.com/od/naturalgasvehicles/a/cngconversion.htm
those work.

reddice2, i don't think i can make you understand, you NEVER, NEVER get something from nothing. first law.

efficiency.
nothing is 100% efficient.

if you want more MPG, and less power, get a custom grind done on your cam. have the grind done so that the intake valve stays open after the piston starts to travel up, this will reduce pumping losses, and increase engine efficiency. this is what honda did.

this is how i can put it...

take your engine out of your truck, hook it up to a 376,730 watt generator, in turn hook that up to a hydrogen generator, and take the hose from it and hook it directly to your intake. the engine will now be a full power, able to draw all its power from the h2 generator, and you should still have enough left over to cook your meal on. now to the problems with that.
generators are at best 93-97% efficient.
engines are at BEST 37% efficient.
34% overall efficiency.
so the H2 generator will have to create about 300% more H2 then the power that is put into it. this is then creating power.
the first law...

The first law of thermodynamics, an expression of the principle of conservation of energy, states that energy can be transformed (changed from one form to another), but cannot be created or destroyed.

now do you understand?

 

[scoobert]

I found an error in my calculations - here is a repost with the new values:

The biggest kit from scoobert's post makes 50 liters of hydrogen/oxygen mix per hour. Since it is separating hydrogen an oxygen from water, then it is exactly at the right percentages to be recombined during combustion. Since our motors are 8.3 liters, it would take around 24 complete revolutions (12 full cycles, 2 strokes per revolution, 4 stroke motor) at full throttle to use up an hour's worth (50 liters) of production from the kit.

So, at 6000 rpm at full throttle it would used up the full hour's production in less than 1/4 of a second.

So, lets say you just want to supplement by mainly burning gasoline/air and supplementing with hydrogen/oxygen at 10%. And, let's say that you only care about cruising speeds, steady state on the highway.

At 15 mpg at 60 mile per hour, our trucks are burning 4 gallons/hour. At 14.7:1 air fuel ratio by mass, and air at standard temp/press at .01lb/gallon, the truck is consuming 36550 gallons of air per hour plus the 4 gallons of fuel for 36554 gallons of vaporized air fuel mixture. So at 10% supplementation, it would need to produce 3655.4 gallons/hour, times 3.78 liters/gal or 13817 liters/hour.

Since the largest unit produces 50 liters/hour, you would need around 276 of them for 10% supplementation. At 20 amps draw each, that would equal 5520 Amps. At 13V, it would take 717600 watts or about 96 hp to power it (at 100% efficiency). So, you would need around 40 additional alternators and they would draw around 137hp (at 70% alternator efficiency) off the front of the motor.

All of this for only 10% supplementation at steady state highway cruising. Seems like a huge net loss to me....

now recalculate to best efficiency plausible, of 37% LOL

oh wait, your not taking into account the power given by the H2 injected.

 

[WOT]

1st law says you can't get something for nothing. The 2nd law says that in reality, you can't even break even.

 

[WOT]

All of you out there that think that there is a magic carbuetor out there that will give you 100 mpg are sadly mistaken.

Scoobert is right on this one. None of this crap will ever amount to a hill of beans. It is possible that supplementing H2 into the intake could somehow boost combution efficiency. But, I would think it would be very small: on the order of 1-2%. Couple that with the fact that those device get their power from the engine in the first place, and you will most likely see a net loss.

 

[scoobert]

1st law says you can't get something for nothing. The 2nd law says that in reality, you can't even break even.

shhhhh first law first. .... actually zeroth law is first, but who is counting, lmao. i hope they all learn something today. next they will be putting a magnet on the fuel line to align the atoms in the fuel for best combustion.

 

[viperhauler]

they have those

 

[scoobert]

now check this out...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoelectric_effect
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermogenerator

 

[500snakz]

The biggest kit from scoobert's post makes 50 liters of hydrogen/oxygen mix per hour. Since it is separating hydrogen an oxygen from water, then it is exactly at the right percentages to be recombined during combustion. Since our motors are 8.3 liters, it would take around 24 complete revolutions (12 full cycles, 2 strokes per revolution, 4 stroke motor) at full throttle to use up an hour's worth (50 liters) of production from the kit.

So, at 6000 rpm at full throttle it would used up the full hour's production in less than 1/4 of a second.

So, lets say you just want to supplement by mainly burning gasoline/air and supplementing with hydrogen/oxygen at 10%. And, let's say that you only care about cruising speeds, steady state on the highway.

At 15 mpg at 60 mile per hour, our trucks are burning 4 gallons/hour. At 14.7:1 air fuel ratio by mass, and air at standard temp/press at .01lb/gallon, the truck is consuming 36550 gallons of air per hour plus the 4 gallons of fuel for 36554 gallons of vaporized air fuel mixture. So at 10% supplementation, it would need to produce 3655.4 gallons/hour, times 3.78 liters/gal or 13817 liters/hour.

Since the largest unit produces 50 liters/hour, you would need around 276 of them for 10% supplementation. At 20 amps draw each, that would equal 5520 Amps. At 13V, it would take 717600 watts or about 96 hp to power it (at 100% efficiency). So, you would need around 40 additional alternators and they would draw around 137hp (at 70% alternator efficiency) off the front of the motor.

All of this for only 10% supplementation at steady state highway cruising. Seems like a huge net loss to me....

Lets not forget the added weight....

 

[scoobert]

Lets not forget the added weight....

just tow this for the H2 generation.
http://www.machinerytrader.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=7035724

 

[2004ram1500]

there is a 10 for sale online that says it runs on propane too??? i didnt know this stuff was available for these trucks

 

[scoobert]

yes, propane. i believe its more popular in the UK.

 

[viperpwred]

its kinda misleading.. i dont think H2 will do anything for gas mileage. it is a flammable gas however but i dont like the term hydrogen kit cuz it makes it seem like it turns your engine into a hydrogen powered car which is impossible to convert a gas engine to. (h2 engine burns h2 to produce electricity)