Paxton, headers and Heat:

[Silverback]

To further add to the discussion:

The stock manifolds are basically short-tube headers. Though cast iron, they are shaped to handle exhaust gases quite well compared to many exhaust manifolds I've seen over the years.

I can kind of see where DC is coming from: If they only get 2-5HP from adding $2000+ headers, they'll look for HP elsewhere and get matching gains (or better) for less cost- to them and the customer.


RedRamRules- You're such a tease.

You are correct. The stock manifolds are lightyears in advance of what they were years ago. That is why you don't see that much of a gain on a stock engine by adding headers.

However adding boost and/or Nitrous is another thing all together. Anyone that claims that headers will not be of any benefit in that situation is in my humble opinion full of shit.

Shall we move on the benefits of a wing?:dontknow:

 

[BOOMER]

Since they first installed my Paxton in '04, I've been told by nearly all the experts that Paxtons with headers is a no-no... The reason being the heat element... that together, they generate power robbing amounts of heat.

Dan Cragin, Mike Brady and other imminently credible sources have all given me the same advice.....

I'm wondering if the passage of time has afforded some genius sufficient opportunity to develope headers with heat sheilds or some other means to solve the problem....

Or is the story still the same..........? Anyone.......?

Thanks,

Django

D-anyone that tells you headers are a no-no for a Paxton is sadly mistaken, or they live in a state where CARB wont let them install them. i can prove it time and time again on our dyno that they work, and unlike a turbo, blowers need to get rid of the pressure on the exhaust side. with the proper heat sheilding it is the best way to go if you want the most power. if you want to stay under 600hp, then by all means stay with stock manifolds. but if you want the most out of your truck, then by taking the time to properly insulate the headers and intercool the supercharger more effiecintly, then the skys the limit, we dyno our 3 times in a row with NO cool down and our power never varies more than 5hp. it all boils down to how much you want.

 

[ViperTruck2933]

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[PaddyOBrian]

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Do you mind sharing that?

 

[RedRamRules]

To further add to the discussion:

The stock manifolds are basically short-tube headers. Though cast iron, they are shaped to handle exhaust gases quite well compared to many exhaust manifolds I've seen over the years.

I can kind of see where DC is coming from: If they only get 2-5HP from adding $2000+ headers, they'll look for HP elsewhere and get matching gains (or better) for less cost- to them and the customer.


RedRamRules- You're such a tease.

I agree with everything here, including being a tease

 

[JTS VENOM PERFORMANCE]

I got headers!

but they hold up samsung hair dryers!lolol

hey paddy! pass some over here!

 

[Nowwhat]

D-anyone that tells you headers are a no-no for a Paxton is sadly mistaken, or they live in a state where CARB wont let them install them. i can prove it time and time again on our dyno that they work, and unlike a turbo, blowers need to get rid of the pressure on the exhaust side. with the proper heat sheilding it is the best way to go if you want the most power. if you want to stay under 600hp, then by all means stay with stock manifolds. but if you want the most out of your truck, then by taking the time to properly insulate the headers and intercool the supercharger more effiecintly, then the skys the limit, we dyno our 3 times in a row with NO cool down and our power never varies more than 5hp. it all boils down to how much you want.

you should spend less time worring about headers and more time on those fuel lines.....

D- 680+ rwhp all day long no headers.....

 

[Nowwhat]

Sorry Mike, you are wrong.

yikes...ok how about htis one.....

CURRENTLY there are no S/C trucks with headers that are making more rwhp then mine made without them.......

can we agree on that???????????????????

ps...Love you

 

[ViperTruck2933]

yikes...ok how about htis one.....

CURRENTLY there are no S/C trucks with headers that are making more rwhp then mine made without them.......

can we agree on that???????????????????

ps...Love you

Mike,
DaveT is making 702 rwhp/ 667 rwtq with Belangers on a stock block and 91 octane and w/m.

How much did yours make before the rebuild?

 

[UNIBOY]

Mike,
DaveT is making 702 rwhp/ 667 rwtq with Belangers on a stock block and 91 octane and w/m.

How much did yours make before the rebuild?

I am just curious is Dave T's new motor stock besides the pistons?

 

[Kevan]

Mike,
DaveT is making 702 rwhp/ 667 rwtq with Belangers on a stock block and 91 octane and w/m.

I think DaveT has upgraded pistons.

 

[Nowwhat]

Mike,
DaveT is making 702 rwhp/ 667 rwtq with Belangers on a stock block and 91 octane and w/m.

How much did yours make before the rebuild?

anywhere from 686 to 701 and that is through the QC's drivetrain which as you know sucks some power...

 

[ViperTruck2933]

I think DaveT has upgraded pistons.

Good point on the pistons. I forgot that. Maybe he'll chime in here but I think his motor is an 03 that is totally stock (came factory with forged pistons).

Dave correct me if I am wrong.:dontknow:

 

[FerrariTruck]

I am lost with on this header issue... I dont understand how headers do not produce more hp on sc trucks... I dont understand how the rough casting inside a manifold and it all the cylinders exiting thru the same passageway could be better than fully smooth equal lenth runners that exit out of a nice collector.. When it comes to numbers, nowwhats numbers talk :rock: but it just doesnt make sense...i guess i can understand them not being worth the money for the power gains:dontknow:

 

[Kevan]

I don't understand how the rough casting inside a manifold and it all the cylinders exiting thru the same passageway could be better than fully smooth equal length runners that exit out of a nice collector.

The insides of the stock exhaust manifolds are very, very smooth. Just this side of extrude honed. I would say extremely close or as nice as the inside of any header.

I think folks are stuck on the image of an old school "feels like lead; looks like a 3rd grader molded it" exhaust manifold. You need to remember that we're dealing with a VIPER ENGINE. This isn't a straight 6 from 1975.

The stock manifolds have a decent tube/collector setup. Like I said: think of them as short tube cast iron headers.

 

[Silverback]

I am lost with on this header issue... I dont understand how headers do not produce more hp on sc trucks... I dont understand how the rough casting inside a manifold and it all the cylinders exiting thru the same passageway could be better than fully smooth equal lenth runners that exit out of a nice collector.. When it comes to numbers, nowwhats numbers talk :rock: but it just doesnt make sense...i guess i can understand them not being worth the money for the power gains:dontknow:

Yes, Mike makes some impressive power with his setup. No arguement there.

I would however be willing to bet a years worth of bananas that if headers were installed on his truck and the tune was updated for the headers, that he would see at least a 5% increase in HP. Actually it should be closer to 10%.

There is one hell of a difference between stock manifolds and cats removed, when compared to an equal length header with the scavanging effects they provide.

And Mike, I may be "Old School", but guess what. 2+2 still equals 4.

 

[sleeper]

Your saying he could make a extra 70+hp with just header install?

 

[Django]

I can't wait to go back and read all this technical discussion......

But I gotta fly right now.........

Thanks to everyone who contributed...... Specially all the heavy hitters....

I don't post technical questions very often... Glad I did....

Thanks, again.....

Django

 

[Nowwhat]

Yes, Mike makes some impressive power with his setup. No arguement there.

I would however be willing to bet a years worth of bananas that if headers were installed on his truck and the tune was updated for the headers, that he would see at least a 5% increase in HP. Actually it should be closer to 10%.

There is one hell of a difference between stock manifolds and cats removed, when compared to an equal length header with the scavanging effects they provide.

And Mike, I may be "Old School", but guess what. 2+2 still equals 4.

Silver....my set up was not exotic....everyone running the same set up as me with headers made the same power that I was.....they should be making 760rwhp....????

and I like the fact that you are old school....

the issue is that these trucks are not old school....you also know that header design is much more than primary diameter...it is tube length...collector size, shape etc....that is to say a header's performance is maxed by designing it to the application....for whatever reason you like...these headers don't add the power to a paxton...maybe there is a correct header design for a paxton....maybe that design doesn't exist yet or maybe it does and it is the stock manifolds....

 

[Silverback]

Silver....my set up was not exotic....everyone running the same set up as me with headers made the same power that I was.....they should be making 760rwhp....????

and I like the fact that you are old school....

the issue is that these trucks are not old school....you also know that header design is much more than primary diameter...it is tube length...collector size, shape etc....that is to say a header's performance is maxed by designing it to the application....for whatever reason you like...these headers don't add the power to a paxton...maybe there is a correct header design for a paxton....maybe that design doesn't exist yet or maybe it does and it is the stock manifolds....

Mike, I have come to understand that you are stubborn and refuse to learn. But that's okay, I still love you too.:star: :dancing: :rock: