Manic said:And win nothing...
Hey, dont steal my "and win nothing" thingy
I did chuckle when I read that.
Paxton, headers and Heat:
- Thread starter Django
- Start date
Hey, dont steal my "and win nothing" thingy
I did chuckle when I read that.
Ram From Hell said:
First I agree. 100% is 100%...
But maybe the concept he is ineptly trying to express is the scavaging (sp?) effect...where due to some design component, there is more pulling of exhaust gases rather than the pushing of the engine? :dontknow: :dontknow: :dontknow:
As I recall 2 cycle engines need some back pressure from the exhaust to be most efficient. But would a significant vacuum in a set of specially designed headers increase horsepower?
Interesting discussion.
Last edited:
Prof said:
If the stock manifolds provide any scavaging effect I will blow you at high noon at the location of your choice.
Ram From Hell
Full Access Member
Prof said:
Exhaust scavanging is typically a passive function, as I understand it. Achieved by promoting "pulling" of gasses through sequencing arrival times (by tuning tube length and/or combining tubes ahead of the collector) of exhaust pulse energy at the collector, thereby enhancing velocity. Did I get that right?
As such, I don't think that guy was trying to apply that function to his 120% thought. Perhaps he was speaking to the natural increase in exhaust flow due to the incoming air charge being pressurized. Depending on (would it be cam lobe overlap?) valve timing, I think the incoming air helps purge the cylinder. But still, how you get 120% for an efficiency percentage is beyond me.
Even if that is the case, the difference in performance from the added flow capacity with headers should incrementally enhance engine performance as the maximum volume of air the engine sees increases, and as the limitations of the factory exhaust manifolds would othewise have been reached and exceeded.
IMHO, Nowwhat and others are certainly correct as far as the performance/$ being negligible for nearly all otherwise stock trucks equipped with the Paxton. I expect that the same holds true at the other end of the engine. Consider how much air you would have be set up to push through an FI engine to realize measurable (much less substantial) performance gains with an aftermarket intake manifold. There are way cheaper ways to get that performance, but if you can, why not?
Granted, headers and custom intakes look sweet, but if you're not already balls-out on your FI engine, the performance aspect they deliver is comparatively just a minor bonus.
Ram From Hell said:Exhaust scavanging is typically a passive function, as I understand it. Achieved by promoting "pulling" of gasses through sequencing arrival times (by tuning tube length and/or combining tubes ahead of the collector) of exhaust pulse energy at the collector, thereby enhancing velocity. Did I get that right?
As such, I don't think that guy was trying to apply that function to his 120% thought. Perhaps he was speaking to the natural increase in exhaust flow due to the incoming air charge being pressurized. Depending on (would it be cam lobe overlap?) valve timing, I think the incoming air helps purge the cylinder. But still, how you get 120% for an efficiency percentage is beyond me.
Even if that is the case, the difference in performance from the added flow capacity with headers should incrementally enhance engine performance as the maximum volume of air the engine sees increases, and as the limitations of the factory exhaust manifolds would othewise have been reached and exceeded.
IMHO, Nowwhat and others are certainly correct as far as the performance/$ being negligible for nearly all otherwise stock trucks equipped with the Paxton. I expect that the same holds true at the other end of the engine. Consider how much air you would have be set up to push through an FI engine to realize measurable (much less substantial) performance gains with an aftermarket intake manifold. There are way cheaper ways to get that performance, but if you can, why not?
Granted, headers and custom intakes look sweet, but if you're not already balls-out on your FI engine, the performance aspect they deliver is comparatively just a minor bonus.
I agree with what ever he just said.
Begood
Full Access Member
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:Silverback said:
Bill.
Ram From Hell said:
You are right on the money Eric, on that one.
I do need to clarify one thing. Equal length tube, or Tuned headers are exactly that, Tuned. That means that the diameter and length of the primary tubes are Tuned to work in a specific RPM range.
The principle behind this is that if the exhaust pulse of one cylinder is timed to arrive at the collector just as the next exhaust valve on the next cylinder is opening it creates a vacuum, or scavaging effect as that pulse is expanding in the collector. Thing is this only works in a certain RPM range.
Now does that mean that headers only work in that RPM range? No, they still function in the rest of the RPM range, they are just not as effecient.
Damn, I wasn't going to respond to this thread anylonger, and now I'm late to a meeting.
It's all your fault Eric.
Nowwhat
Full Access Member
Silverback said:Damn, I wasn't going to respond to this thread anylonger, and now I'm late to a meeting.
I hope that is a "why headers are a waste of money with a Paxton meeting"....
JMB Justin said:
Can I get an amen or a BS on this sentence please...?
Thanks.....and good morning....
Django
Nowwhat
Full Access Member
Silent D said:Can I get an amen or a BS on this sentence please...?
Thanks.....and good morning....
Django
you can get a BS on a lot of these sentences....
the manifolds on are trucks do not hold back your paxton....period...if they did...paxton trucks with headers would be making more power than paxton trucks without....but they aren't....cuz headers are not needed in this application....period....amen....
nycstev
Full Access Member
Nowwhat said:you can get a BS on a lot of these sentences....
the manifolds on are trucks do not hold back your paxton....period...if they did...paxton trucks with headers would be making more power than paxton trucks without....but they aren't....cuz headers are not needed in this application....period....amen....
One more for the road... are you suggesting all FI including Roe? or just paxton?
Steve
Nowwhat said:you can get a BS on a lot of these sentences....
the manifolds on are trucks do not hold back your paxton....period...if they did...paxton trucks with headers would be making more power than paxton trucks without....but they aren't....cuz headers are not needed in this application....period....amen....
Thanks, Mike.....
I think one of the most salient points (that) you made pertained to advantages for "hp gains over 700 rwhp" ... I doubt that I'm going to go that extreme on my hp........ I may add DCs blower flash and/or methanol, but my goal is to maintain fairly conservative performance mods for the purpose of a good long engine life......
Thanks again for everyone's input.........
Django
nycstev
Full Access Member
One more for the road... are you suggesting all FI including Roe? or just paxton?Nowwhat said:you can get a BS on a lot of these sentences....
the manifolds on are trucks do not hold back your paxton....period...if they did...paxton trucks with headers would be making more power than paxton trucks without....but they aren't....cuz headers are not needed in this application....period....amen....
Steve
You don't get off that easy DJ! Who's side are you on...you wusss...put up your dukes and get involved...no cut and run here!
Who's team are you on? Boomer and Silverback or DC Performance and Mike?
Come on, I will not stop until I get your emotions in a boil! You long haired dope crazed, hippy, pinko, Mikey loving, worthless, terrible guitar playing, poor taste in music, need I say more....
Who convinced you?
Who's team are you on? Boomer and Silverback or DC Performance and Mike?
Come on, I will not stop until I get your emotions in a boil! You long haired dope crazed, hippy, pinko, Mikey loving, worthless, terrible guitar playing, poor taste in music, need I say more....
Who convinced you?
nycstev
Full Access Member
Nowwhat said:you can get a BS on a lot of these sentences....
the manifolds on are trucks do not hold back your paxton....period...if they did...paxton trucks with headers would be making more power than paxton trucks without....but they aren't....cuz headers are not needed in this application....period....amen....
One more for the road... are you suggesting all FI including Roe? or just paxton?
Steve
Ram From Hell
Full Access Member
Nowwhat said:
Ah, Mike. You're just hoping someone's going to take such issue with this that they'll do a dyno test before and after.
Now everyone else take note. Mike said that they are not needed. Who needs a Paxton? Who needs nitrous? Who needs a Viper-powered truck? Nobody. But most of us want it.
If ya like 'em, put 'em on. Now give me an amen.nycstev said:
Except for a turbo (duh), it won't make a difference what you're compressing the intake air with. Positive displacement and centrifugal superchargers will benefit to the same degree. As previously beaten to death, your mileage may vary, depending on how stupid the sum of money was that you spent on your engine.
ViperTruck2933
Full Access Member
My headers work great and were well worth the money.
:rock:
:rock:
Prof said:
There are a number of decaffeinated brands on the market............
There is wisdom in a multitude of counselors.....
I believe there's actually a consensus, not a schism......
Every expert seems to agree that headers are applicable for hp gains in excess of 700...... and while Mike Brady was the first to make that specific delineation, I would presume that he'd get very little argument from Gary or others.
My personal choice will be exactly as I said..... If the Belanger long tubes are $2000 and give me no more than 5hp, wouldn't that money be far better spent a blower flash and maybe the new intercooler and inlet box...?
There's just alotta stuff that is more cost effective and meets the needs that I've outlined for my "perfect truck"...... Maybe not someone else's..... just mine...
I don't really see that there's THAT MUCH disagreement.
...and I don't get goaded into arguments very often..... 'Specially on the subject of a damned truck........ nice try, though....
Djangone
nycstev
Full Access Member
One more for the road... are you suggesting all FI including Roe? or just paxton? TIA:dontknow:Nowwhat said:you can get a BS on a lot of these sentences....
the manifolds on are trucks do not hold back your paxton....period...if they did...paxton trucks with headers would be making more power than paxton trucks without....but they aren't....cuz headers are not needed in this application....period....amen....
Steve
Silent D said:There are a number of decaffeinated brands on the market............
There is wisdom in a multitude of counselors.....
I believe there's actually a consensus, not a schism......
Every expert seems to agree that headers are applicable for hp gains in excess of 700...... and while Mike Brady was the first to make that specific delineation, I would presume that he'd get very little argument from Gary or others.
My personal choice will be exactly as I said..... If the Belanger long tubes are $2000 and give me no more than 5hp, wouldn't that money be far better spent a blower flash and maybe the new intercooler and inlet box...?
There's just alotta stuff that is more cost effective and meets the needs that I've outlined for my "perfect truck"...... Maybe not someone else's..... just mine...
I don't really see that there's THAT MUCH disagreement.
...and I don't get goaded into arguments very often..... 'Specially on the subject of a damned truck........ nice try, though....
Djangone
You are so inscrutable...are you sure you are not a little bit Asian?
I tried, but failed going back into my cave. What's a guy got to do around here to get a little excitement generated?
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