READ before you vote!

BriteCrawler said:
Without touching any of your beliefs with a 10 foot pole, where do you expect these charitable organizations to come from? Where do you see adoption organizations as being a good thing. So many children grow up parent-less and lacking guidance as it is. This nation is in a state of panic in regards to the economy as it sits. Where are these donations for fatherless children coming from? I need to keep food on my table right now, not theirs.

Finally, those educations are not free. Tax Payers pay for it. That's everyone who does the "right thing" and pays their taxes regardless of what their stance on abortion is. My wife is an extremely underpaid educator and a tax payer. Irony? Yes, she pays herself to work an often thankless job... but an important job.
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Firstly, I think everyone here really thinks they have my number and knows what I believe....

You don't know DICK about me... You can only guess..........

Regarding all the unwanted children: Apparently, your only option is to kill them..........

They are here.. There's no way to undo that. Deal with it in a civilized and humane manner... Don't fkn kill them.......

And there are plenty of people like myself who are willing to give to worthy causes such as these and others. If you don't wanna give, don't. There are certain positive aspects of being Christian...... Charity is one of them.........

D
 
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Here is my stance on abortion.

I could never see myself aborting a child of mine. I mean, I sit here right now with the twins running around, and the joy that I experience from them is impossible to put into words. C'mon who really wouldn't want that?

But, as with everything else, even that isn't so simple. What if, a doctor were able to tell you that your unborn child had serious medical problems. I'm not talking about something that would be inconvenient to you (such as Down's) but something real bad. The kid wouldn't live past 2 or 3, and every day here would be like hell on earth for him? What then?

Because I can't honestly say what I would do in that situation. But of this I am certain, I would want the choice to be mine, not that of some lawmaker or judge.
 
I would say that the right to life should be decided by those that are forced to carry it to term. That way testosterone does not get in the way of rational thinking. The argument that people should keep their privates in their pants is absurd. It will never happen and you can't force your will upon people and force them not to fornicate. My belief is life starts after you pop outta the oven....Period ! There are social programs now for fatherless children and they are a horrible failure....a new one will only add to the pile.
 
OCBob said:
Here is my stance on abortion.

I could never see myself aborting a child of mine. I mean, I sit here right now with the twins running around, and the joy that I experience from them is impossible to put into words. C'mon who really wouldn't want that?

But, as with everything else, even that isn't so simple. What if, a doctor were able to tell you that your unborn child had serious medical problems. I'm not talking about something that would be inconvenient to you (such as Down's) but something real bad. The kid wouldn't live past 2 or 3, and every day here would be like hell on earth for him? What then?

Because I can't honestly say what I would do in that situation. But of this I am certain, I would want the choice to be mine, not that of some lawmaker or judge.
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:congrats: :rock:


AANNNDD score one for Bob!








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TheSickness said:
I would say that the right to life should be decided by those that are forced to carry it to term. That way testosterone does not get in the way of rational thinking. The argument that people should keep their privates in their pants is absurd. It will never happen and you can't force your will upon people and force them not to fornicate. My belief is life starts after you pop outta the oven....Period ! There are social programs now for fatherless children and they are a horrible failure....a new one will only add to the pile.
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thank you :congrats: :congrats: :congrats:
a man that speaks with intelligence!


that is all!
 
TheSickness said:
I would say that the right to life should be decided by those that are forced to carry it to term. That way testosterone does not get in the way of rational thinking. The argument that people should keep their privates in their pants is absurd. It will never happen and you can't force your will upon people and force them not to fornicate. My belief is life starts after you pop outta the oven....Period ! There are social programs now for fatherless children and they are a horrible failure....a new one will only add to the pile.
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And we will agree to disagree...............

Score: The sexual revolution wins over the lives of innocent children.....

Of course the social programs suck. The deck is stacked against them.....

I'm done.............. all the votes have been recorded....... It's over...

I'm a dinosaur, I know it............ I don't give a fuck, either.....

D
 
Turtle said:
thank you :congrats: :congrats: :congrats:
a man that speaks with intelligence!


that is all!
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I am not as smart as most on here but I have a moment although fleeting every 18,000 posts so I am done for awhile LOLOL :p
 
supercar1of1 said:

Anyone change their opinion yet?;)
.
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Whether someone changes their mind or not is immaterial.

There are greater things than trying to change someone's mind........

D
 
OCBob said:
See, one thing that I have always noticed about the right is that they say they are for less government, yet they want more laws that deal with personal behavior. You know the kind of laws I'm talking about. They want to regulate sex, drugs, even what is acceptable entertainment. I have always been very confused about that.
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Bob, I don't want to regulate sex. I want to mandate responsibility for one's actions.

If someone wants to do drugs..... even dangerous drugs. I say let 'em.... There's too much crime and death associated with illegal drugs ... And if people wanna kill themselves on drugs, I say let 'em... If they die, it's their own fkn fault....

As far as entertainment, there has to be a limit on what's acceptable.. For instance: are snuff films OK.......? Ya see, there comes a point when you've got to have some limitations... Is sticking yer dick in a gerbil like Richard Gere OK... Ask the gerbil, Chances are he'd pass.....

I know...all the Freemen are basically anarchists.....

D
 
Django said:
And we will agree to disagree...............

Score: The sexual revolution wins over the lives of innocent children.....

Of course the social programs suck. The deck is stacked against them.....

I'm done.............. all the votes have been recorded....... It's over...

I'm a dinosaur, I know it............ I don't give a fuck, either.....

D
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Your not a Dinosaur Tim just as old as one. Your thoughtful, intelligent and my friend. As someone who attempted in vain to help 2 boys a year ago and failed I can say that people who grow up in a shattered household will have problems the rest of their lives. Who pays the price ? They do and it's not their fault at all...People can't choose their parents and the world is a very non perfect place. In cases of incest and rape I am all for the womans right to chose. I disagree with the practice of using abortion as a form of birth control...I have a Girl friend I grew up with that has had 4 abortions and I hate that about her. However especially in this case it's a good thing she did.
She has 3 kids from 3 different men and none of those men are in her life now.

My father walked out when I was 2 and was forced to live a very hard life for along time...I remember eating Popcorn and Peanut butter and lots of Gov cheese growing up. She is doing the same-thing and working full time. So in my view there are conditions where aborting a Embryo or Fetus is the right thing to do, for everyone involved. But who are we as men to make that judgment for them ? It's their body, they are the cradle of life and they have a right to chose..Thankfully the Supreme Court has been smart and left the Roe V. Wade decision alone.

Take ideological and religious belief outta the argument and put it in a more compassionate light and reality based and the choice is simple. You don't carry it so you don't decide...Women are the majority and they seem to like the right to chose so I am all in on it as well.
 
Django said:
Whether someone changes their mind or not is immaterial.

There are greater things than trying to change someone's mind........

D
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I apologize, It's just that I have never seen another topic when debated,

prove to be an exercise in frustration to the degree that the A-word does.

:eek:





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supercar1of1 said:

I apologize, It's just that I have never seen another topic when debated,

prooves to be an exercize in frustration to the degree that the A-word does.

:eek: .
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No need to apologize, my friend.

I just had to balance the kudos with a modicum of reviling and disgust.....

"Everything in life must make a balance....." Kesuke Miyagi

D
 
Django said:
No need to apologize, my friend.

I just had to balance the kudos with a modicum of reviling and disgust.....

"Everything in life must make a balance....." Kesuke Miyagi

D
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Mr. Miyagi RAWKS! :D

Pat-Morita_%28Karate_Kid%29.jpg


Rest in Peace, Pat. :(
 
Django said:
Firstly, I think everyone here really thinks they have my number and knows what I believe....

You don't know DICK about me... You can only guess..........

Regarding all the unwanted children: Apparently, your only option is to kill them..........

They are here.. There's no way to undo that. Deal with it in a civilized and humane manner... Don't fkn kill them.......

And there are plenty of people like myself who are willing to give to worthy causes such as these and others. If you don't wanna give, don't. There are certain positive aspects of being Christian...... Charity is one of them.........

D
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No, not quite the case. Why are you so uber defensive? I never said you were wrong or that my beliefs didn't somewhat fall in line with yours. You flipped WAY off the handle when someone else "drew conclusions" about your beliefs, but isn't that what this thread is about - posting your ideas and thoughts?

I didn't tell you what to think or derive anything from your post. I asked you what you would do to create your proposed situation because I certainly don't see it happening in this America, any time soon - and that's what this thread is really about, reading it before you vote and this is your chance to hang that out on the line.

The only "number" of yours I've drawn from this thread is that you're extremely defensive and paranoid that everyone is out to get you... You're right, I know DICK about you, and that's why I questioned what you had to say, and is that not the point of the thread? You've put opinions here, and opinions can not be incorrect... only the facts. You can believe what you want to believe.

And if people wanna kill themselves on drugs, I say let 'em... If they die, it's their own fkn fault....
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So what you're saying here is: You want to make decisions for some peoples lives (the argument that a fetus is a life)... yet you are willing to let some folks commit suicide? Where do you draw that line of responsibility for ones own actions? At what point should Children know well enough not to take horrible drugs, at what point should they be called adults so that they can be cut out into the world to "fck up and die". Save the babies so they can be suicidal cattle in adulthood? I'm just not in line with your "big picture" here.
 
Django said:
Although your tone and personal assumptions about me are both highly objectionable and patenly erroneous, I will attempt to respond directly to your specific questions... But, I will also address (more specifically) the personal rancor as the opportunities present themselves...

I am a Christian and also a Jew..... But that doesn't dictate that I am one dimensional or religious... I believe that every spiritual path on Earth has it's merits and differences which mandate that a person be well rounded.... So, I follow many paths to Enlightenment unlike strictly religious Christians..... I would suggest that you are stereotyping..... It is a big fkn mistake to think you know what transpires in the Spirit or mind of another person.

Your tone questioning my belief in the Constitution of the United States is presumptuous, pejorative and condescending... And unless you happen to have a PhD in Constitutional Law, I wouldn't go there... But I will say that although the Supreme Court ruled that Roe v Wade is legally consistant with the 14th Amendment's "right to privacy", not all Supreme Court Justices agree with the decision..... So, just valet park your high horse..... Time is on my side. (yes it is)

One would think that among free thinking people with a soul, that there's a higher law on this Earth than any devised by man.... And the sheer fact that abortion strikes you (personally) to be brutal and grotesque should suggest to you (that) perpetrating such grotesqueness upon an innocent little baby is somehow very wrong...... It's called a conscience..... The still, small voice.

You asked what to do about all the babies...... Simple:

1) Keep your privates in your pants and there won't BE many unwanted babies.... PERIOD.

2) When babies do happen there are tons of adoption organizations and other caring programs in existence today.... Entitlements abound for all types of circumstances and situations.... I also suggest (again) that men without jobs should keep it in their pants until they can support a family or follow one simple rule: "If yer gonna love, wear the glove"

Getting a fricken job might also help feed your kids, too..... That way the rest of us pay a little less.

Your allegations regarding how we are to educate children is absurd. Free education is available to every child in America from K-12...WTF are you bitching about...?

About your personal assumptions:

Your entire diatribe is fraught with bullshit, stereotypical presumptions about what I think and how I relate.... You have clearly made many, many misjudgements about what I believe as a Christian. You've stated that that I don't give two shits about this and that I don't want to offer any social programs.....

Did I ever say any of those things? NO..........

Did I even suggest ANY of those things...? NO...

You only assumed all this stuff........

You don't know shit about what I believe, what I believe IN, or anything else about me....... You assume that because I believe killing innocent babies is wrong that numerous other wholesale forgone conclusions can also be made............. Fact is, you don't know Jack shit....

You've never personally met me... How do you prsesume (then) to see into my soul and make these judgements.... You don't know a God Damned thing about me, sir..... So don't make rash judgements on what I think, feel or believe until you've slept in the same bed with me for about 30-40 yrs.

OK........?

D
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Wow D! I guess I hit a nerve there. Actually, I probably shouldn't assume that, since you didn't say it. Fair enough with your religious beliefs, I could care less what YOU think is the path to enlightenment, or who you feel you're answering to in the end. But, thanks for clarifying that for me.

As for my high horse.... Are you kidding me? It was a question, plain and simple. What you decided about the context of my question, was your decision. It certainly wasn't my intent to be condescending. It was posed so that you could define your stance. Nothing more, nothing less.

So let me get this straight... You DO believe in the U.S. Constitution, but you want to make the decisions for women that you haven't slept with in your bed for 30 or 40 years? You don't know anything about their problems, who are you to make that decision for them? AND you feel that you get to make the decision as to who has sex and how they have sex? WOW, is this not contradictory? Am I missing something here? Take a look in the mirror every once and while, you just might see the emperor with no clothes on.....
 
HDVIPER said:
Wow D! I guess I hit a nerve there. Actually, I probably shouldn't assume that, since you didn't say it. Fair enough with your religious beliefs, I could care less what YOU think is the path to enlightenment, or who you feel you're answering to in the end. But, thanks for clarifying that for me.

As for my high horse.... Are you kidding me? It was a question, plain and simple. What you decided about the context of my question, was your decision. It certainly wasn't my intent to be condescending. It was posed so that you could define your stance. Nothing more, nothing less.

So let me get this straight... You DO believe in the U.S. Constitution, but you want to make the decisions for women that you haven't slept with in your bed for 30 or 40 years? You don't know anything about their problems, who are you to make that decision for them? AND you feel that you get to make the decision as to who has sex and how they have sex? WOW, is this not contradictory? Am I missing something here? Take a look in the mirror every once and while, you just might see the emperor with no clothes on.....
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Once again, you presume alot...... way lot....

Stop trying to put your words into my mouth .... I don't believe what you think I believe.....

Your statements are so utterly insulting and fallacious that you don't even merit a significant response. I don't have the patience to return and rip it all apart anyway.....

Believe whatever the fuck you want........ I couldn't give a shit....

D
 

Didn't someone waaay back in this thread try to warn everybody that the debate of certain subjects usually result in nothing but friction?

I would rather debate giving machine guns to ten year olds with Sarah Brady!



:eek: :( :eek: :( :eek:





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