Roe Intercooler

Basically what I'm trying to say is that there has to be some sort of benefit of cooling the air before the supercharger. My proposal is to use a liquid to air intercooler rather than an air to air sytem.

So lets say the ambient temperature is 80 degrees. Wouldn't running water thru an intercooler reduce the temperature before it enters the supercharger? Remember it has it own circulation pump and the truck would be running at speed. Wouldn't this have the same effect as being in a hot room and turning a fan on? Hence windchill factor.
 
Obviously this would not be the most efficient set up, but there has to be a benefit.
 
yeah there is benefit but question wasnt with co2 it was with an intercooler yes you can add liquid cooling and there is definatly going to be a benefit and yes i phrased that wrong but when you compress air you get higher temps. but i am just saying vacuuming uncompressed air and cooling it with just the same air you vacuumed in isn't going to cool anything now if you are going to spray the intercooler with c02 then yes you are no longer just doing air to air cooling :) i know i plan on the c02 setup myself when i get to that point but that wasn't the question. at least unless i miss read something back prior :)
 
blackviper said:
Basically what I'm trying to say is that there has to be some sort of benefit of cooling the air before the supercharger. My proposal is to use a liquid to air intercooler rather than an air to air sytem.

So lets say the ambient temperature is 80 degrees. Wouldn't running water thru an intercooler reduce the temperature before it enters the supercharger? Remember it has it own circulation pump and the truck would be running at speed. Wouldn't this have the same effect as being in a hot room and turning a fan on? Hence windchill factor.
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There is a benefit only if you chill the water before the intercooler, if not it would have no effect. Just circulating water at ambient temp will not lower the temp of the intake air.

The chill factor from a fan is something different. Your body generates heat which kind of lingers around you, the fan just blows that heat away.

There is great benefit from cooling the intake air before the supercharger, but it has to be cooled with either CO2, A/C refrigerant, or chilled water.
 
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Thanks for the clarification. I guess we'll have to wait for someone to come out with some sort of intercooler after the supercharger or go with the DEI CO2 system.
 
In the mean time the Water/meth solution is working! Combined with the resistor mod that Sean suggested...Roe users are in good shape in terms of intake air temperatures IMO.
 
I've been following this thread. All I can say is there is a demand for an Intercooler for our trucks. Why is it that we can't find a business willing to design a proper intercooler that can also be also used for high boost applications to unleash the full potential? The Roe supercharger seems to have the most potential with the least amount of support.:dontknow:
 
You're only simple solution is to run an air to air cooler, combine that with a cool can that holds the fuel lines and the meth lines, and with dry ice or co2 it would supercharge the meth and the fuel, but it would have to be tuned jsut for this and be good only at the track.

The mustang cobras use a water to air, with a pump system, fluidyne makes a killer water to air cooler you may look into that , or call them
 
SRT-MIKE said:
Second, heat does not get created during compression, the heat remains the same (Remember, heat is energy and energy cannot be created nor destroyed) but the volume of the air is reduced through compression, the same amount of heat in a smaller volume translates into higher temperature.
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Sorry Mike, but I'm going to have to call you on that.

You do create heat when compressing air. The friction produced, primarily from the atoms colliding as they are forced closer together, does in fact generate heat. Correct me if I'm wrong, but heat can only be generated through either chemical reactions (combustion included) or from friction. There is plenty of friction that occurs as air is pumped through a compressor.

The cooling that would work best on the Roe (lacking an effective intercooler) is through a pre-cooler that induces below-ambient temperatures, such as the CO2 systems. A traditional air-air or water-air pre-cooler would not have a substantial benefit due to ambient temperatures (as has been noted), since the difference between the incoming air and ambient temp would be minimal.
 
Ram From Hell said:
Sorry Mike, but I'm going to have to call you on that.

You do create heat when compressing air. The friction produced, primarily from the atoms colliding as they are forced closer together, does in fact generate heat. Correct me if I'm wrong, but heat can only be generated through either chemical reactions (combustion included) or from friction. There is plenty of friction that occurs as air is pumped through a compressor.

The cooling that would work best on the Roe (lacking an effective intercooler) is through a pre-cooler that induces below-ambient temperatures, such as the CO2 systems. A traditional air-air or water-air pre-cooler would not have a substantial benefit due to ambient temperatures (as has been noted), since the difference between the incoming air and ambient temp would be minimal.
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Ramfromhell, I understand where your doubt comes from, but what you're talking about are two different things: heat and temperature. Heat would the energy content of a given volume of air and it is basically constant during compression. However, Tempreature increases inversely proportional to the volume: if you compress air to half the volume (twice the pressure) you double the temperature (due to the colliding of atoms you mentioned.) However the total enegy of the mixture is basically unchanged, the contribution of the friction component you mention is neglegible.
 
I am no thermo-dynamic physicist like some of you guys (and I do mean that as a complement) but I do have some experience with a blower/intercooler setup as I had one on my old Silverado SS. A traditional air/water intercooler only operates at ambient air temperature and brings the temperature of the post-huffer compressed air charge back closer to ambient as it enters the intake manifold. I wouldn't think this type of setup would do anything to cool outside air before it enters the blower, unless it were refrigerated via the A/C, CO2 or other means.

Sorry if I am repeating or belaboring the obvious. No flames, but as good as the Roe twin screw top mount blower is, I personally think a supercharger without an intercooler is an expensive power adder with somewhat limited potential. It's a shame you have to inject methanol whenever you're on reasonable boost. You might as well just use nitrous. I think a supercharger should give you on-demand power whenever you want it without having to juice it in some way from a bottle you need to refill.

If Sean Roe doesn't develop an intercooler to fit his blower I don't know who will. Magnuson makes them for GM V-8's because there is a big market. Whipple makes them for Ford for the same reason. The Viper/Ram SRT-10 market, as we know, is small. That's why we pay out the a.. for all our mods. I can't be critical of supercharger buyers when I paid going on $2K for an exhaust setup alone. Just my $.02. Don't mean to hijack the thread or tick anyone off...
 
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hunter_angler said:
It's a shame you have to inject methanol whenever you're on reasonable boost. You might as well just use nitrous. I think a supercharger should give you on-demand power whenever you want it without having to juice it in some way from a bottle you need to refill.
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You make some excellent points...

I only defend the water/meth approach because it is a very practical, low-tech approach to assure avoidance of detonation. In the 13 months I have had the Roe, I have used possibly 5 gallons of -30 degree windshield washer fluid as my meth source...I have never run out, or even refilled the reservoir at the race track. Sean never said it was a power adder as some claim...he has always used it exclusively for cooling under boost...seems to be very effective to me at a few hundred dollars.

Your input is always welcome...don't apologize for experience as your only frame of reference...some of us don't even have that!

Roy
 
If push comes to shove, you can use the safe 6º retard tune and run the Roe S/C dry. Even without meth and with a safe tune it blows the doors off a stock SRT-10. You probably loose 30% off the torque, but that's still about 100hp over stock.

I've tried it a couple of times, it still rocks.

In the meantime, like prof says, as long as I fill the winshiled wiper reservoir twice as often as I did before, I get that additional 30% benefit :burnout:
 
Again, I'm not dissing the Roe blower. It looks like a great design. I just think you could utilize it better with a proper intercooler. If all I wanted was 100 HP over stock (which is great, I would love to have it) I would probably stay N/A and go with ported heads and a bit bigger cam along with the exhaust mods I have now.

You guys are probably right. The methanol/water solution works fine for the boost levels you are running, which are about as high as you would want to go on the stock bottom end anyway. The intercooler would definitely come in handy for the guys who have rebuilt with forged internals and want to run higher PSI.

Regardless, I respect you guys for pushing the envelope and demonstrating what is possible. All the best.
 
water/meth is a just a band-aid if that pump should ever fail or you for get to add the widow washer solivent boom your done. Just go with the novi and run their after cooler. water injection should be used as a power adder not a must have or my rig will explode. Novi+after cooler+ water wetter= safe hp even at 8lbs of boost.
 
avmech said:
water/meth is a just a band-aid if that pump should ever fail or you for get to add the widow washer solivent boom your done. Just go with the novi and run their after cooler. water injection should be used as a power adder not a must have or my rig will explode. Novi+after cooler+ water wetter= safe hp even at 8lbs of boost.
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Water/meth is used to push the performance envelope of the Roe and is not essential.

No matter how many pounds of boost the novi generates, it will not match the on-demand bottom torque of a twin screw blower on a safe, dry tune. And for a daily driver, that's where all the fun is.
 
ok ive only talked to a couple of people that have the Roe, and they all run the meth as a knock suppressor not a performance up grade. I'm not knockin the Roe at all different strokes for differt folks, but as for low end puch my Novi will produce just as much punch as a Roe on the bottem and will produce more at the top end. all the fun is from 3k and up, and No its not an everyday driver but i do put about 200 miles a week on her, but no snow, its like driving a bull in a china shop at that point.
 
Once Sean prefects an INTERCOOLER on on the ROE TMTS.... It will be unstoppable, in the SRT truck world. :rock:


............... But, until then..... Get a Vortec blower w/ the after-cooler (pseudo- intercooler). :eek: It's the best BFTB (Bang-for-the-buck), IMO. :)
 
Black1 said:
Once Sean prefects an INTERCOOLER on on the ROE TMTS.... It will be unstoppable, in the SRT truck world. :rock:


............... But, until then..... Get a Vortec blower w/ the after-cooler (pseudo- intercooler). :eek: It's the best BFTB (Bang-for-the-buck), IMO. :)
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Roe has claimed that they have no intention or time to produce an intercooler for the twin screw.
 
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