So the Factory Intake Manifold sucks.

[SrtBrad]

if you install the ported intake do you have to get a new tune ,,,i will be sending out my spare intake soon and was wondering ,,,i want a tune done on dyno in macon next week ,,,and intake wont be done till december some time ,,

If Trainman gains some decent numbers then the AF tables will need to be adjusted accordingly. We will see if tuning will be required or not.

 

[Big Worm]

same same , I jsut used a different wording

so what does the hone do?

 

[Big Worm]

okay this sounds like it will do something

 

[Begood]

so what does the hone do?

Smooths and enlarges the inside of the intake manifold.

Bill.

 

[FFPerformance]

This manifold was hand ported with custom tooling that we developed. Every square inch is indeed done by hand, even 26" deep into the plenums. This is one of our techniques that set us apart.

True extrude honing is essentially a thick paste (think playdough) mixed in with abrasive media that erodes away sharp corners and takes down the casting flash inside. While I do think that getting as much casting flash out of the manifolds is a good thing (helps boundary layer airflow control) the EH process doesn't segregate where it removes its material from and on occasion (not saying this is true with the viper manifolds) it can take away too much in certain runners. What I mean is if you take an old single plane carburated intake manifold where your runners at the corners (1,4,5,8) typically have bends in them and flow less than the inner runners (2,3,6,7) you will make an already imbalanced manifold worse. The EH process does flow through the path of least resistance and will make your least resistant ports flow better, and potentially not as much on your poorer flowing ports. Make sense? This is just an example and again, may not apply to the viper manifolds.

The way the math and flow calculations work out there should have been at least a 4% increase in power from the test we did on Trainman's manifold. We did only get a 2% increase but I think that it just shows there is a bigger restriction elsewhere in the system (heads, upstream of the manifold, or even the exhaust setup). Trainman stated that he will be going back to the track for further results and I do believe the 'ram' effect will help a bit.

The next manifold will also be bench flowed to check, and verify, my initial calculations.

-Bob

 

[Trainman]

Bob...Thank you again for all your efforts, I was really pleased with the high end results that I consider very good considering I have a stock engine (block , pistons, cam and heads). Let Dan at DC know if there is any other work you want to try on my intake. Jerry

 

[DevilDawg3097]

Just by a Roe Or ask sean to make you an intake he already has the design.

 

[FFPerformance]

Bob...Thank you again for all your efforts, I was really pleased with the high end results that I consider very good considering I have a stock engine (block , pistons, cam and heads). Let Dan at DC know if there is any other work you want to try on my intake. Jerry

You bet Jerry. It was great to work with you and DCP on this project. There is another plenum modification that we can try, but we'll leave that up to Dan/Lyle to decide. That particular mod is not from the FFP side of things.

I was told you were planning to track the truck and see if there were any positive changes to your trap speed. Do you have a track day picked out yet?

I think the next logical step is to find a setup that is actually stressing the manifold. I'm glad we saw gains on your setup, but we should have had more. This just shows me that the restriction lies elsewhere. I have talked with Lyle about porting and coating the intake on the DCP shop drag viper, as it's pushing 900whp+ and suffers from heatsoak badly. It would make a prime candidate for my services. Expect more on that front in due time. :rock:

 

[MG42pillbox]

FFPerfomance. Has anyone you know ever worked with or used that Mopar Performance Intake manifold for the Vipers? (The hill born-injection looking thing). This might be it, or another version I don’t know.

 

[ZCx]

or this one from Exoctic Engine
Development:rock: :burnout: :rock: :burnout:

 

[MG42pillbox]

or this one from Exoctic Engine
Development:rock: :burnout: :rock: :burnout:

Yea yea, what are the advantages, Does it even work right on a stock long-block?

 

[FerrariTruck]

Yea yea, what are the advantages, Does it even work right on a stock long-block?

Better throttle response and equal cylinder filling...BMW takes this further on the m3 and m5 motors by balancing out the tubes by having face in different directions...All in all I think this is minute horsepower to chase....for the expense

 

[Begood]

All in all I think this is minute horsepower to chase....for the expense

I agree.

Bill.

 

[Ironhead]

sounds like all you really need to do is gacket match ports and go with that ,,i cant see burning 750 bucks plus for a mere 2% hp gain

 

[MG42pillbox]

sounds like all you really need to do is gacket match ports and go with that ,,i cant see burning 750 bucks plus for a mere 2% hp gain

Isnt that before labor?

 

[Ironhead]

Isnt that before labor?

with that set up i guess so ,,i based that on prices i got to do a extrude hone job ,,i bet thiers will be way more than that ,,,but hey look at it this way you get a whoopin 2% gain

 

[FFPerformance]

with that set up i guess so ,,i based that on prices i got to do a extrude hone job ,,i bet thiers will be way more than that ,,,but hey look at it this way you get a whoopin 2% gain

I can guarantee there is more than 2% gains to be had from the work.

All this test showed was that even as good as the portwork and ceramic coatings are, it is not the major restriction on a stock setup. Hell I get more out of NA 4cyl intake manifolds most of the time.

If I had to guess, the stock heads, or the exhaust setup isn't allowing enough flow to utilize what we freed up in the porting process.

Now fast forward a bit, and we will be conducting another test with DCP on a 900+hp motor that is having serious heat soak issues (ceramics will help this greatly) and because we will be flowing nearly double the cfm that the stock motor is setup for, and have aftermarket heads on it, the true colors of the manifold will shine.

Cliff notes version: If you are relatively stock, don't expect to see huge gains from this work. If you are significantly upgraded, this will be a very cheap hp/$ mod for you.

 

[FFPerformance]

FFPerfomance. Has anyone you know ever worked with or used that Mopar Performance Intake manifold for the Vipers? (The hill born-injection looking thing). This might be it, or another version I don’t know.

No, I have not personally worked with that setup before.

I have talked with Kevin at exotic engines about a few tweaks and I would expect to see them in up coming versions of the manifolds we put out.

 

[AbercornTowing]

What about adding some pressure...

Instead of going through the effort of making the manifold work better what about using the money for forced induction. Sure the flow dynamics will still suck but the back cylinders wont have to pull down so hard for a breath of air. An easy 130-180 hp.

 

[Trainman]

Bob @ FFPerformance....weather permitting I will try to run at Sacramento Raceway on 11-29-08, Saturday Test and Tune...Can anybody from Norcal be there to video? Trainman