Great post ! What its all about !
And did your last paragraph relate to , ARE WE THEIR YET ! Or IS IT READY YET !
The Engine Build
- Thread starter Kiwi SRT10
- Start date
And did your last paragraph relate to , ARE WE THEIR YET ! Or IS IT READY YET !
Nice piece of Hemi history .. years ago I aquired a 331 hemi for free and was looking into rebuilding it .. the people I talked to all said its a boat anchor .. Parts even back then where hard to find not to mention my income of 2.75 per hour pre mechanic days .. I ended up giving it away lol ,, who knows how many still exist and if there worth something today ,, ill guess very few left and yes a collectible now .
Goodaaay...
Just before you put your money away:
Chris Jensen and Dan Craigin (2 respected names in Viper research and the Viper tuning world) told me the o.e.m. Gen III Injectors (43 lbs. per hour)
were maxed out on a 700 horspower Viper engine. Tuning them for maximum pulse-width (wide open flow) doesnt supply enough fuel to the engine.
F.Y.I. Chris has been tuning Vipers for a long time and has taught many of the Tuners that may be left today.
Torrie will know him for sure.
Chris has flown up to Calgary a few times now for dyno-tuning sessions for these trucks, and we saw it on my own truck using both a loading Dyno and during road-testing, while it was hooked up to the wide-band O2 sensors. W.O.T. readings were way out of the safe zone on my engine.
We also did Old Colt's RC engine up with Strikers and it was borderline okay with o.e.m. Injectors. However, I also was using more compression, a bit bigger cam and a few other differences. Plus my auto trans. was likely pulling it down harder. So not an exact comparison (is it ever???).
I have a pretty good idea what your engine with the parts used, will make for power.
As the Injectors I chose are a physically shorter Injector they required drilling the Injector-Well in the Intake Manifold lower AND the pads for the fuel rails so the Injectors could seal to those properly.
You MAY want to save a bit more stash in case Torrie (or whoever you use for tuning), finds the same thing.
I think at your elevation(???), a lean issue would be even more likely.
Just another tip that may become useful; but you might have to wait and see how your new creation responds.
Good Luck with the project!
Ronnie
Just before you put your money away:
Chris Jensen and Dan Craigin (2 respected names in Viper research and the Viper tuning world) told me the o.e.m. Gen III Injectors (43 lbs. per hour)
were maxed out on a 700 horspower Viper engine. Tuning them for maximum pulse-width (wide open flow) doesnt supply enough fuel to the engine.
F.Y.I. Chris has been tuning Vipers for a long time and has taught many of the Tuners that may be left today.
Torrie will know him for sure.
Chris has flown up to Calgary a few times now for dyno-tuning sessions for these trucks, and we saw it on my own truck using both a loading Dyno and during road-testing, while it was hooked up to the wide-band O2 sensors. W.O.T. readings were way out of the safe zone on my engine.
We also did Old Colt's RC engine up with Strikers and it was borderline okay with o.e.m. Injectors. However, I also was using more compression, a bit bigger cam and a few other differences. Plus my auto trans. was likely pulling it down harder. So not an exact comparison (is it ever???).
I have a pretty good idea what your engine with the parts used, will make for power.
As the Injectors I chose are a physically shorter Injector they required drilling the Injector-Well in the Intake Manifold lower AND the pads for the fuel rails so the Injectors could seal to those properly.
You MAY want to save a bit more stash in case Torrie (or whoever you use for tuning), finds the same thing.
I think at your elevation(???), a lean issue would be even more likely.
Just another tip that may become useful; but you might have to wait and see how your new creation responds.
Good Luck with the project!
Ronnie
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Yes indeed.
Dan and Chris worked together at DC Performance. Chris showed me his mad creations he used to manipulate the E.c.u's long before there were hand-held Tuners that are common today. Truly pioneer level stuff!
Viper engine's are pretty basic but when adding Strikers, they do require specific things. As a Striker distributor, I saw first hand why things went right and why they went wrong, in some cases.
No longer a Distribitor (as Strikers are no longer produced), I have no vested interest in anyone's current projects but I can help if needed.
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Yes the injector issue...will just have to wait and see.
If the money runs out I can always put the OEM heads back on and sell the Strikers. I know it works on that lot.
I am also worried about the T56 gearbox. How much can they take?
If the money runs out I can always put the OEM heads back on and sell the Strikers. I know it works on that lot.
I am also worried about the T56 gearbox. How much can they take?
Well, thanks!We all respect your knowledge and input very much!!! You are invaluable - thank you for sharing your brains with us
The kind words are appreciated.
Your T56 should be just fine. Just avoid doing things like putting on Drag Radials and dumping the clutch at 4 grand!
When your new engine is working like it should, you will NOT want to go back to the way it was, honest...
I have been assured that the OEM injectors are fine. I have a tendancy to believe otherwise, as you say.
Wonder how much that will be? Another retune?
55Lb or 60Lb? The ad I am reading at the moment say 60Lb go up to 1000hp
How many CC 650?
What did you use Ronnie?
Make size etc
So I can find and price what I may need
What did you use Ronnie?
Make size etc
So I can find and price what I may need
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South Bay have 60Lb direct fit injectors for $600
www.southbayfuelinjectors.com
inatautoparts.com
SouthBay 60lb/630cc Dodge Viper SRT-10 8.3L Fuel Injectors
Dodge Viper SRT-10 RAM 8.3L 60lb/630cc Fuel Injectors
www.southbayfuelinjectors.com
10pcs Fuel Injectors Upgrade for Dodge Ram SRT-10 2004-2006 E85 Compat
Set of 10 injectors including 14mm (black/red/purple) adapter tops, 14mm bottom o-rings, plugs and pins. Direct Plug and Play for the 2004-2006 Dodge Ram 1500 SRT-10, 1999-2002 Dodge Viper ACR, 1996-1997 Dodge Viper Base, 1998 Dodge Viper GT2. Flow matched within 1%. This matching process...
inatautoparts.com
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I sourced some 69 pounders from JMB Justin (look for JMB Powdercoat).
Not sure of cc output...I went with those because they fit, and the electrical fitting is a direct hookup to the factory connector.
Bosch makes one that's an increase of only 2 pounds over stock (not enough) and requires a different elecrical connector. Many injectors will fit in the hole but have different electrical connectors, spray nozzles, capacities and overall lengths.
There may be another one out there by now that's say 55 lbs./hr. which may be easier to tune, but I didn't find anything like that when I bought mine.
The only way to be sure your o.e.m. injectors are providing enough fuel is to use a couple of wide-band O2 Sensors during your pulls (or road tests) and see if your readings go lean at w.o.t. say from 12:1 to 15:1. That's best determined with a laptop (on a stationary dyno) recording the data, as w.o.t. pulls can be rather "violent" when your Tuner is trying to operate a laptop beside you when driving at Warp 9.
Not sure of cc output...I went with those because they fit, and the electrical fitting is a direct hookup to the factory connector.
Bosch makes one that's an increase of only 2 pounds over stock (not enough) and requires a different elecrical connector. Many injectors will fit in the hole but have different electrical connectors, spray nozzles, capacities and overall lengths.
There may be another one out there by now that's say 55 lbs./hr. which may be easier to tune, but I didn't find anything like that when I bought mine.
The only way to be sure your o.e.m. injectors are providing enough fuel is to use a couple of wide-band O2 Sensors during your pulls (or road tests) and see if your readings go lean at w.o.t. say from 12:1 to 15:1. That's best determined with a laptop (on a stationary dyno) recording the data, as w.o.t. pulls can be rather "violent" when your Tuner is trying to operate a laptop beside you when driving at Warp 9.
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They come with Purple in the one link lol hint hintSouth Bay have 60Lb direct fit injectors for $600
SouthBay 60lb/630cc Dodge Viper SRT-10 8.3L Fuel Injectors
Dodge Viper SRT-10 RAM 8.3L 60lb/630cc Fuel Injectors10pcs Fuel Injectors Upgrade for Dodge Ram SRT-10 2004-2006 E85 Compat
Set of 10 injectors including 14mm (black/red/purple) adapter tops, 14mm bottom o-rings, plugs and pins. Direct Plug and Play for the 2004-2006 Dodge Ram 1500 SRT-10, 1999-2002 Dodge Viper ACR, 1996-1997 Dodge Viper Base, 1998 Dodge Viper GT2. Flow matched within 1%. This matching process...
I sourced some 69 pounders from JMB Justin (look for JMB Powdercoat).
Not sure of cc output...I went with those because they fit, and the electrical fitting is a direct hookup to the factory connector.
Bosch makes one that's an increase of only 2 pounds over stock (not enough) and requires a different connector.
There may be another one out there b that's say 55 lbs./hr. which may be easier to tune, but I didn't find anything like that when I bought mine.
If you increase the output power of a stock 500 horsepower Viper engine by 50% with a properly setup Striker build, for example, it stands to reason the stock injectors would be inadequate.
Not sure of cc output...I went with those because they fit, and the electrical fitting is a direct hookup to the factory connector.
Bosch makes one that's an increase of only 2 pounds over stock (not enough) and requires a different connector.
There may be another one out there b that's say 55 lbs./hr. which may be easier to tune, but I didn't find anything like that when I bought mine.
I wouldn't consider any other injectors to be an upgrade for a stock engine.
If you increase the output power of a stock 500 horsepower Viper engine by 50% with a properly setup Striker build, for example, it stands to reason the stock injectors would be inadequate.
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Ok thanks ,, I was thinking like changing a carbutrator in the old days from say a 650 cfm to a 780 .. was also wondering if the if the stock injectors are sufficient throughout the fuel curve .. its been said the factory system is set up on the rich or overly rich side !
Oh..okay, I understand.
The injectors provide fuel only and are controlled by the ecu, based on the tune and inputs from various sensors. The Throttle Body lets in air only. The Intake Manifold is designed to provide the same amount OF AIR to each cylinder so there is more to those than just a pretty face!
Yes, on a stock to near stock engine the stock injectors can provide ample fuel. The longer the injector is energized by the ecu (called the pulse-width), the more fuel they provide.
It is the only way they provide more (or less) fuel. They are either open or shut and aren't variable. The fuel flows into the top of them from the (in our case) chrome looking fuel rails, as you likely know. The fuel rails stay pressurized by the fuel pump in the gas tank, controlled by a regulator of sorts.
The manufacturers provide more fuel to prevent detonation under harsh conditions (typically heat and load) which is overly-rich but saves the engine. Quad Cabs could get really rich under certain conditions which helped the engines stay alive BUT limited power.
The ecu also strives for a fuel/air ratio of 14.7:1 when cruising which is calculated by the O2 sensors up and downstream of the cats. Known as the Stoichiometric Ratio, it is the ideal ratio of air (for gasoline) which again, is 14.7 parts of air to one part of fuel.
Many fuels are different and require different air fuel ratios. For example, Nitromethane requires an A/F ratio of 1:1 .
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So ECU in conjunction with specific sensors opens the injectors to release the fuel at a set fuel/ air ratio with fuel curve throughout the Rpm range .
So what is the benefit of using larger injectors on a stock ,mildly or HP build since the ECU controls the system and fuel/air ratio and tuning the fuel curve for optimum ratios and performance/ efficiency ? My guess is on a HP build that the larger injectors are needed due to the stock injector having limitations to being able to sufficeintly supply a large enough air/ fuel charge under a more powerfull engine especially under WOT !
Yes, the more fuel and air an engine can consume (generally speaking), the more power it can produce.
If you put a blower or turbo on an engine, it requires more fuel for all that additional air.
MANY things have to support the engines ability to utilize forced induction to get the most from the build.
So with breathing enhancements such as better cylinder heads, intake, camshafts, exhaust changes, etc. the design capacity of the stock injectors is exceeded and more fuel is required. There is considerably more to this and we are assuming here the engine components are strong enough to withstand the increased stress.
A successful "Striker Build" even without forced induction as in the example above, very often requires larger capacity injectors to maintain the proper air-to-fuel balance. And that is because the engine is now "breathing" a lot more air than it did with the o.e.m. heads and is making considerably more power. Properly sized injectors will ensure there will be enough fuel at w.o.t to prevent a dangerous lean-out condition.
If you put a blower or turbo on an engine, it requires more fuel for all that additional air.
MANY things have to support the engines ability to utilize forced induction to get the most from the build.
So with breathing enhancements such as better cylinder heads, intake, camshafts, exhaust changes, etc. the design capacity of the stock injectors is exceeded and more fuel is required. There is considerably more to this and we are assuming here the engine components are strong enough to withstand the increased stress.
A successful "Striker Build" even without forced induction as in the example above, very often requires larger capacity injectors to maintain the proper air-to-fuel balance. And that is because the engine is now "breathing" a lot more air than it did with the o.e.m. heads and is making considerably more power. Properly sized injectors will ensure there will be enough fuel at w.o.t to prevent a dangerous lean-out condition.
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