Tremec / Centerforce problems..

Westxsrt10 said:
Where did you mount the reservior?, it should be the highest part of the system with no loops so the air will migrate up. I wouldn't take any lines apart to bleed the system because as soon as you break into the system air gets in and you will have to start all over again. Just bleed it at the bleeder valve about 20 times and call it done!
Click to expand...

The reservior is mounted above the master cylinder and i actually unbolted
it to straighten the tubing out so the air bubbles would come out. I also
tapped on the master cylinder and rubber tube to make sure i got most
of the bubbles inside out.. hahah I wouldn't mind bleeding it 20 times
and calling it but damn does bleeding it make a mess! and this Motul stuff
isn't all that cheap ;) :D
 
So i finally man'd up and brought it to the dealership to get it bled
and i had a lengthy conversation with the viper tech and he thinks that it's not
The Hydraulics but possibly the flywheel. He thinks the flywheel has warped a little
bit and is causing the clutch to not fully disengage properly and is the main reason
why everything is acting weird. I plan on actually being in the shop with him to help/watch
him take apart the truck so we can further determine the root cause of this nonsense. I plan
on getting my steel flywheel resurfaced and put back in just to be safe. He did say that the master
cylinder is properly working :D but the slave might have a blown seal if it actually is the slave cylinder.

Two questions..

1) What is the exact difference between the stock hydraulics and viper car hydraulics? I was asked this question
and was a little embarrassed that i couldn't answer it well..

2) Could the flywheel actually be bent enough due to the pressure acting upon it that i finally am
beginning to have problems with disengagement?


Andrew
 
The Viper hydraulics are billet the oem on Ram SRT 10's are plastic..hence heat and pressure cause them to flex.

Just buy a new oem flywheel is a little over $200.

Can't respond to the cause of a bent flywheel.
 
the reason you have to use the viper master cylinder is because the fitting is unique and will only fit on the viper cast aluminum slave. So there is nothing special or better about the viper "hydraulics" is just the aluminum slave is holds up alot better then the composite plastic one under harsh conditions
.

I'm not buying the warped flywheel. That wouldnt cause hardshifting per say..

maybe vibration on the pedal upon engagement and disengagement or slipping..

Its too bad I cant look at it for you in person, we would have this thing fiqured out already
 
Prof said:
Just buy a new oem flywheel is a little over $200.
Click to expand...

:dontknow: Any particular reason i should buy a new flywheel? The steel
stock one i have only has about 3k miles on it. There are no heat cracks or
small fissures in the flywheel so i figure just get it resurfaced for $50 and
call it a day :dontknow: :D


FerrariTruck said:
I'm not buying the warped flywheel. That wouldnt cause hardshifting per say..

maybe vibration on the pedal upon engagement and disengagement or slipping..

Its too bad I cant look at it for you in person, we would have this thing fiqured out already
Click to expand...

Well, he said on monday when we break it all down to have a good look
at it when we get the flywheel off we can just take a strait edge and place
it against the flywheel. That way we'll know real quick if it is the flywheel..
Honestly i don't think that's the problem. I think it's the slave cylinder.
Something inside of it has broken off or busted... :dontknow: I mean
i thought about it quite a bit and it's not the clutch or transmission, if
it was the flywheel i think i would have noticed clutch chatter or some
really weird slipping issues or noises.. That leaves me with the slave cylinder.
I mean, it sounds weird when i engage and disengage the clutch using the
pedal and it's not fully disengaging the clutch when it's supposed to. I
swear this is the weirdest thing i've ever come across...
 
The new one will have a warranty...if you have to come apart to replace the resurfaced one you will also have the labor to drop the trans again.

Just the safer route for $150 extra.
 
Prof said:
The new one will have a warranty...if you have to come apart to replace the resurfaced one you will also have the labor to drop the trans again.

Just the safer route for $150 extra.
Click to expand...

What would you guess labor to cost if i didn't go the safe route? I realize
that you can't really work on these trucks with a 'budget' ;) :D :D But i'm
trying to do just that! I hope i can get a deal from the tech on labor as i
can't really / don't really plan on spending more than $300 on the whole
thing.... :(
 
One question. did you test the master. disconnect it from the slave and if the pedal is rock hard the master is good if the pedal even goes down slighty then you have air in the master or the master has a bad seal. if your slave was bad it would be leaking that is the main faliure on them and also if the slave was bad you would not have any pedal so double check that. Just a thought.
 
DevilDawg3097 said:
One question. did you test the master. disconnect it from the slave and if the pedal is rock hard the master is good if the pedal even goes down slighty then you have air in the master or the master has a bad seal. if your slave was bad it would be leaking that is the main faliure on them and also if the slave was bad you would not have any pedal so double check that. Just a thought.
Click to expand...

Hmm yeah i tested that.. However, the pedal get's solid after
about an inch of travel. :dontknow: When i was with the tech
yesterday we took a look at it and he had me press the pedal
while he watched/messed around with the master. He told
me it's fully disengaging so i assume it's working in proper order..:dontknow:
 
Sharpimage said:
Hmm yeah i tested that.. However, the pedal get's solid after
about an inch of travel. :dontknow: When i was with the tech
yesterday we took a look at it and he had me press the pedal
while he watched/messed around with the master. He told
me it's fully disengaging so i assume it's working in proper order..:dontknow:
Click to expand...
mine did that too but then it would loose pressure once hooked back up to the slave the seal inside the master was pinched when I took it apart. I dont think it is your flywheel, but without beaing able to see it in person is like pissin in the wind. One other thing does this viper tech seem to know what he is talking about. Becuase there are a few around here that are supposed viper tech's but I wouldnt let them touch a yugo. Also there should be no travel with a good master as soon as you push down it should barely move an inch. I dont know this is wierd. Then again it maybe something internally.:confused:
 
DevilDawg3097 said:
mine did that too but then it would loose pressure once hooked back up to the slave the seal inside the master was pinched when I took it apart. I dont think it is your flywheel, but without beaing able to see it in person is like pissin in the wind. One other thing does this viper tech seem to know what he is talking about. Becuase there are a few around here that are supposed viper tech's but I wouldnt let them touch a yugo. Also there should be no travel with a good master as soon as you push down it should barely move an inch. I dont know this is wierd. Then again it maybe something internally.:confused:
Click to expand...
I got in mine one day, Put my foot on the clutch pedal and it was soft all the way to the floor. I started the motor, And started letting the pedal up. It was grabbing right off the floor for about an inch. Did the upgrade w/Centerforce, And has been great. I went through 2 OEM clutches & slaves before this.:(
I did not realize it before, But the stock set up would slip on a hard take off a little, Even from a roll. It would spin the tires, But nothing like the new set-up..... More clamping force.:burnout:
 
no this was after I swapped everything over, I used the stock master at first and those are about as good as the stock slave. And then my slave issue was due to the pilot bearing being the wrong one and the shaft wobbling and taking out the slave. It is just hard to diagnose without being able to drive it, to see what it is actually doing. Hope he gets it fixed right, shit gets aggravating after a while.:argh:
 
DevilDawg3097 said:
One other thing does this viper tech seem to know what he is talking about.
Click to expand...

haha i asked myself the same question.. He didn't seem very familiar with
the trucks but every time i goto that dealership to talk shop with the
guy i always see a viper car(s) there. Apparently he's the only one that works
on them as well.. He has worked on some of the Roe SC and heffner builds
so i assume he's fairly well versed in what to do.. Again though, i really
really hope they let me in the shop so i can see what the hell is actually
going on. I'm super curious myself..
 
Alright folks i got an update,

The sales department quoted me at $900 for a new flywheel and labor.
I call bullshit. So i talked to the Viper tech and we had a lengthy discussion
on what needed to be done in order for the transmission to work properly..

He thinks the flywheel is a concave shape by about 0.005" and is causing
problems because the clutchs outer pucks have worn down more so
than the inner pucks so the release is weird. Now i don't know how much
force it takes to bend a flywheel but i want to say it's more than what
a pressure plate exerts on it? :dontknow:

Another thing i don't understand is why after two fluid changes that i
start to experience these problems.. It very well may be a compound
issue. Hydraulics are failing and my clutch/flywheel is toast. Honestly
do you folks think it's a flywheel problem? The truck has about 25k
the clutch/flywheel setup has about 20k on it.

Regards,

Andrew
 
Sharpimage said:
Another thing i don't understand is why after two fluid changes that i
start to experience these problems.. It very well may be a compound
issue. Hydraulics are failing and my clutch/flywheel is toast. Honestly
do you folks think it's a flywheel problem? The truck has about 25k
the clutch/flywheel setup has about 20k on it.

Regards,

Andrew
Click to expand...
i drag race on the same setup as you have without any of the issues you've got - love my setup........:rock:
now with that said, can products fail - sure...... on the flywheel warping, something would have had to fail to cause the excessive heat (from the clutch dragging on it) to cause the warping.... if your hydraulics failed or weren't properly installed to begin with, then there ya go...... :( if this is the case, both flyweel & clutch are toast too.....:(

btw, the center insert of the fidanza is replaceable for only $63.00 :

http://www.roeracing.com/ProductCart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=92&idproduct=392
:)
 
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You guys both have good points! :D But i just can't see how this setup
could fail with just changing out the fluid twice... I mean, honestly, what
could cause me to not be able to shift after 2000 RPMs. I can shift at 2000
or before but not after. This is a disengagement issue no doubt. But why/how
would RPMs effect disengagement?
 
just wanted to add one more thing about I dont think the flywheel is warped the bastards are tuff http://www.vtcoa.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29448
look at the picture of the stock clutch it blew apart:eek: :D and like I said nothing wrong with it and even used it up until I changed it out. So take it to a trans shop and let them test drive the t56 is in a ton of prodution cars so it is not a rare trans and plus a trans shop will be half the cost on labor and parts and them fuggers are quick.
 
dawg pointed out something and it hit home:D

ok sharp , you told me you were only changing the fluid ,

but you said you may have gotten air in the system, now if you let the master run too dry, like dawg says the seal inside the master may be screwed bud,

get dawgs opinion, but if you let it run dry it is a possibility,

but $900 to change a flywheel??????? shit I will do them all day long at that price:wavey: :wavey: :wavey:
 
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