Truck is running bad & loading up. Anyone got any idea??

[Cruster]

Rob, am I retarded or have you been away a while? Don't recall having seen your posts recently.

Let me rephrase that....scratch the retarded part, I already know the answer

Good luck with your fix!

 

[robwclark]

disconnect the xtra injectors

Good one stink. Im on it now, BRB. Also, NO sparks under the hood in dead no light condition, MAP sensor was sparkly clean along with the hose.

One weird thing though. there is a wire soldered in to the middle wire on the map sensor plug and goes down and ties in to one of the wires on the bottom(black) PCM plug. Wonder why they did that?

 

[robwclark]

Rob, am I retarded or have you been away a while? Don't recall having seen your posts recently.

Let me rephrase that....scratch the retarded part, I already know the answer

Good luck with your fix!

Yes I havent had time to play on the computer at all. About 6 months ago my job description changed and one of the changes was I dont sit at the compuer much any more. So yea Ive been away. Sorry guys.

 

[JTS VENOM PERFORMANCE]

.....................ok

 

[robwclark]

Hey guys. Also, listen to this.......... I unplugged the plug and vaccuum hose from the map sensor and started the truck up. It ran absolutely 100% just the same with the map plugged in or unplugged. Wonder if that has anything to do with it?

Also, if the truck is cold, it runs perfectly smooth for about 20 seconds, then its almost like you can hear the change. The idle drops about 100 rpm, and it starts running like sheet, & puffing fuel smoke, but for a few seconds when you first start it it runs great, revvs up just fine.

 

[LitemUp]

One or more of your boost/vacum line is loose, broken, toren, cracked. Check all your lines. I bet dollars to donuts that one or more are compromised.

 

[robwclark]

.....................ok

Hey Stink. I got 3 out of 4 of them unplugged. Too hot to get the 4th one, and the push-prog was broken. It did just the same with the 4 injectors plugged in or not.

Hey stink I got a question for you though. Ever since I got this truck it has gotten harder to start. At first it seemed like it would start it right up, but now it seems like it takes 2 , 3 or even 4 "key ons" to build 37lbs of fuel pressure which is what it takes to start the truck. For instance when I turn the key to the on position, the fuel pump kicks on high and it goes straight to 30-35 lbs of fuel pressure, then it immediately falls down to almost nothing, so I have to "key on" a few times to build up enough pressure to start the engine. Is this normal with 1" fuel line and an eminator pump? I would think fuel pressure should hold in the line. Also, the truck ALWAYS smells like gas when its not running. I cant find any leaks anywhere, and trust me Ive looked everywhere!! You think I could have an injector leaking down?

Also, if I turn the engine over too long(thinking it might start after 5 seconds or so, but it doesnt), then key off & on again, I swear the lifters rattle louder/longer upon startup. Its like its dumping fuel in the engine as it turns over, but wont fire until it sees 35 lbs, and then it must burn off the fuel that just got dumped on top the pistons, so maybe this sound is detonation at idle? Any ideas on this crap???

 

[JTS VENOM PERFORMANCE]

first I am pretty sure of who did the build and dont agree with what they did, for them it works jsut not me
a 1 inch fuel line is waaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyy overkill, and you loose volume, I dont like 37lbs of fuel pressure, and I def dont like the four xtra injectors,

as I have explained to most , and especially my buddy who is finding out now fstjack I like to keep it simple, the less things installed the less that can go wrong, if you cant make hp without say meth or co2 or 4 ztra injectors then jsut be happy with what you have.

if it was here, first thing I would do is do a leak down test,and an oil test, with all that fuel going thru the oil it will cause quick breakdown of the oil and the bearings, not to mention the piston rings.

then I would get rid of the xtra injectors, and do a simple fuel system with a normal 8 an fuel line system with a regulator and get some decent programming such as a sct or a vec, and basically start from there.

but to answer your question, and the reason I didnt respond to the pm as quick as I did, your truck jsut has too much butchery done to it to really be able to tell what is wrong, it could be in the wiring, the map sensor, jsut a ton of things, they have things wired in places for no sensible reason.

the best thing I could tell ya is to contact the builder, and see what they suggest,

but to me, I def wouldnt run it any more than I had to , with all that fuel in the oil bud , your gonna do some damage to the bearings and such, pull the dipstick and hold a lighter to it away from you , if it startst to burn, well you can imagine how much fuel is in there washing stuff down.

dotn mean to sound blunt, but when diagnosing someone elses work you basically have to start from day one and go fromthere.

I honeslty have no idea wehre to tell ya to start

did you pull all the plugs an see if any one plug was richer than the others?

 

[505'sFastestViper.]

what kind of aeromotive regulator are you rinning a 10-1 that is an awful lot of increase in fuel pressure ...mine is an aeromotive and goes up 1 pound for every pound of boost it sees......another thing do not cycle your key off and on off and one it will flood it.....push the start button down and then turn the key should be instant starts ...plugs def need to be looked at ..what gap? and what plugs are you runnin?/ the 4 extra injectors is a lil dif i have seen them do that on turbocharged hayabusas but they did not come in tuntil you were rolling into boost....simple is better ill agree with sheep boy.....i believe it only takes 800hp to run nines...and a 1.42 60ft time but hey what do i know

 

[robwclark]

first I am pretty sure of who did the build and dont agree with what they did, for them it works jsut not me
a 1 inch fuel line is waaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyy overkill, and you loose volume, I dont like 37lbs of fuel pressure, and I def dont like the four xtra injectors,

as I have explained to most , and especially my buddy who is finding out now fstjack I like to keep it simple, the less things installed the less that can go wrong, if you cant make hp without say meth or co2 or 4 ztra injectors then jsut be happy with what you have.

if it was here, first thing I would do is do a leak down test,and an oil test, with all that fuel going thru the oil it will cause quick breakdown of the oil and the bearings, not to mention the piston rings.

then I would get rid of the xtra injectors, and do a simple fuel system with a normal 8 an fuel line system with a regulator and get some decent programming such as a sct or a vec, and basically start from there.

but to answer your question, and the reason I didnt respond to the pm as quick as I did, your truck jsut has too much butchery done to it to really be able to tell what is wrong, it could be in the wiring, the map sensor, jsut a ton of things, they have things wired in places for no sensible reason.

the best thing I could tell ya is to contact the builder, and see what they suggest,

but to me, I def wouldnt run it any more than I had to , with all that fuel in the oil bud , your gonna do some damage to the bearings and such, pull the dipstick and hold a lighter to it away from you , if it startst to burn, well you can imagine how much fuel is in there washing stuff down.

dotn mean to sound blunt, but when diagnosing someone elses work you basically have to start from day one and go fromthere.

I honeslty have no idea wehre to tell ya to start

did you pull all the plugs an see if any one plug was richer than the others?

I agree stink, I dont like the rising rate fuel pressure either, or any other of the extra injectors & whatnot. The reason I have left it alone is that it has always worked very well. Simple is better I agree 100%. Problem is I'm broke and need to figure out this problem on my own. On top of that there is no one in the DFW area I trust to look at it and give me a better opinion than my own, unless you guys know someone honest and cheap!!

OK I took pictures of the fuel system for ya. The fuel line is 1" Up to the Eliminator pump, then 3/4" from there up to the fuel rail. The eliminator has a 1" inlet and a 3/4" outlet. When the line gets to the back in the fuel rails, it T's off into each side of the rails. The fuel return line leaves the fuel rail then goes up to the aeromotive regulator, then down to another rising rate regulator, then on back to the tank. Also, I have removed 100% of the emmissions system, but I did that a good while back with no problems.

The factory truck PCM runs the 10 factory injectors. The stand-alone PCM only runs the 4 pre-injectors and they only activate under high RPM boost.

I already did a leak-down when I got it and everything was almost perfect actually. This problem just started this morning and only been driven about 10 minutes with the rich-running problem. The oil is good no gas smell and I cant get the dip stick to catch fire at all. NO oil leaks under the truck except one turbo, but the engine is sparkly-clean underside. I watch my air-fuel closely.

I have a VEC3 sitting here with software & cables off my old truck. I could install it, but man I dont know where to start. I guess I could pull the extra injectors off along with the extra pcm that runs them. I am just worried I wont be able to figure out what Im doing once I'm deep into it.

Th Map sensor has ONE soldered wire that goes to the PCM. The 3 wires from the MAP just go to the vaccuum/boost gauge, so I guess the map is mostly just used at a boost/vaccuum reference. That one wire must satisfy the factory PCM somehow.

I did pull 3 plugs from the driver side and #1 was black/rich, #3 normal, #5 black/rich, so that was weird. # 5only looked rich on 2/3 of the plug, then about 1/3 looked normal. The truck has Autolite 985 plugs in it. Do you have a better suggestion on plug choice?

The truck now seems to be running better, but still loads up slightly off-idle, and sometimes if you give it about 2 or 3 lbs at low rpm it will cut out. Maybe it is in the fuel system. Im gonna pull the fuel rails with injectors attached, and do an injector actuator test with the DRB, and see if each injector fires correctly, and make sure non are leaking down.

I cant get that guy at MPI to answer the phone at all. Im a real unbothersome person too, so I dunno. I think maybe he is kinda going out of business, i dunno???

Oh and while I had the intake off, I put a new cam sensor in too. We'll see what happens there. The truck really isnt that complicated stink, this problem should be able to be found. It just loads up some off idle, then again as you rev it up sometimes. The weird thing is that when its cold it runs perfect until it warms up to 180 deg. Its like when it goes to closed loop it acts up then. Thanks, and any further advice would be GREATLY appreciated.

 

[JTS VENOM PERFORMANCE]

well to me did it change when the temp started changing? so in other words as it has gotten hotter in tx, has the truck started to change a bit?

 

[robwclark]

what kind of aeromotive regulator are you rinning a 10-1 that is an awful lot of increase in fuel pressure ...mine is an aeromotive and goes up 1 pound for every pound of boost it sees......another thing do not cycle your key off and on off and one it will flood it.....push the start button down and then turn the key should be instant starts ...plugs def need to be looked at ..what gap? and what plugs are you runnin?/ the 4 extra injectors is a lil dif i have seen them do that on turbocharged hayabusas but they did not come in tuntil you were rolling into boost....simple is better ill agree with sheep boy.....i believe it only takes 800hp to run nines...and a 1.42 60ft time but hey what do i know

Check out the pics Dom, im not sure exactly which regulator it is. Now I dont understand Dom, your saying your fuel pressure goes up one psi for every lb of boost, that doesnt make sense? Thats not even enough to have a rising rate? did you mean 10 psi for every lb of boost? I just cycle the key on and off a couple of times to get the fuel pressure up, I dont cycle it on and off while cranking the truck, yes that would flood it, but the fuel injectors dont actuate until you crank it, right? or am I wrong, and the injectors fire as soon as you turn the key on? The plugs look at be about a 35 gap.

One question: When you turn your key on and just leave it in the on position, and your fuel pressure goes up, does it hold fuel pressure in the line, or does it fall like mine?

 

[robwclark]

well to me did it change when the temp started changing? so in other words as it has gotten hotter in tx, has the truck started to change a bit?

No the truck has ran perfectly up until yesterday morning. Seems to have adapted very well to the hot weather. I have driven the truck 3000 miles since Dec when I got it. This is an loading up problem just started.

Now the truck used to fire right up 1st crank, but now it takes about 2 or 3 key-on's to start. Over time I have figured out that its fuel pressure related. The truck WILL NOT start until it sees 35 lbs of fuel pressure. Thats been like that for a while though

 

[JTS VENOM PERFORMANCE]

hmm let me go back and dlook at the previous post a bit and think on it, but yeah , you should have an increase as soon as boost hits, but not jumping ffrom 35psi to 100 psi, a bit too dramatic, but it does sound fuel related, I was jsut thinking with the change in altitude and such, that with the weather compared to where you got it, it may have a dramatic affect

 

[FerrariTruck]

Have you checked the tps and see what its reading? should be .5 closed and 4.5 wot...

 

[JTS VENOM PERFORMANCE]

Have you checked the tps and see what its reading? should be .5 closed and 4.5 wot...

hey shorty

 

[robwclark]

hmm let me go back and dlook at the previous post a bit and think on it, but yeah , you should have an increase as soon as boost hits, but not jumping ffrom 35psi to 100 psi, a bit too dramatic, but it does sound fuel related, I was jsut thinking with the change in altitude and such, that with the weather compared to where you got it, it may have a dramatic affect

The evelvation is about the same here as it is in NJ, but it gets tons hotter here. The fuel pressure doesnt jump instantly to 100 stink, it gradually gets to about 100 at the boost rises at 9 lbs(which is pretty quick though). If I only give it 3/4 throttle, and it only goes to 6 lbs, fuel pressure may only go to 70 or so. But this isnt really the problem, all that crap works fine. this is a problem at low rpm normal driving. Ill tell you how I can make it do it every time:

I can just rev the engine up to about 3000 slowly, then as the idle falls back to 750 it drops pretty quick from 1000 to 750, right as it drops to 750, I give is 3/4 thrttle or floor it all the way, and it falls on its face from overfueling, but then as soon as it gets done falling on its face for a second or so it revvs up fine.

The other way I can make it do it, is while driving in say 3rd gear at 40 mph, I can roll the throttle on at 3000 them get to about 4 or 5 lbs(about 1/2 throttle) then it will start cutting out. Otherwise it does it intermitant normal driving on and off. Remember fuel pressure stays constant 37-39 lbs all the while it is doing it off idle or normal driving

 

[robwclark]

Have you checked the tps and see what its reading? should be .5 closed and 4.5 wot...

thanks but already checked that we're good there, but that doesnt mean the TPS or IAC are working right. Im fixing to swap those out too and see what happens. Im gonna remove all the turbo related stuff from the engine and run it normal aspirited while im testing all this.

 

[505'sFastestViper.]

Check out the pics Dom, im not sure exactly which regulator it is. Now I dont understand Dom, your saying your fuel pressure goes up one psi for every lb of boost, that doesnt make sense? Thats not even enough to have a rising rate? did you mean 10 psi for every lb of boost? I just cycle the key on and off a couple of times to get the fuel pressure up, I dont cycle it on and off while cranking the truck, yes that would flood it, but the fuel injectors dont actuate until you crank it, right? or am I wrong, and the injectors fire as soon as you turn the key on? The plugs look at be about a 35 gap.

One question: When you turn your key on and just leave it in the on position, and your fuel pressure goes up, does it hold fuel pressure in the line, or does it fall like mine?

yes a 1-1 rising rate regulator goes up 1 psi for every pound of boost it sees...and just cycling the key off and on will flood it!!!!!!!i promise esp if you have hard starts just push the butoon then turn the key

 

[BLWNSRT]

I read through this twice and having a similar problem on my 85. All I can suggest is for the map voltage too high code you either have a faulty sensor or you have a 2bar instead of a 3bar. The map sensor you have is a GM sensor you can get a 2/3bar from your local parts store for fairly cheap they also come with the autometer electric gauges. I don't have the part numbers with me right now but a quick Internet search you should be able to find them.

Seeing how it just started acting up it's gonna be a sensor problem. Check to see if your IAT and Coolent temps correspond to ambient temp. If one of them is out it will dump fuel. Check you short term fuel trim they should be close left to right if one side is -..% its trying to pull fuel if it's +..% it's adding. This may help to see what side may be causing the issue.

The wire soldered to the map sensor seems normal. Using one sensor to give info to the PCM and bkkst gauge. Does your gauge work? The only other suggestion is when you figure it out do an oil change because if you running this rich you will have fuel in the oil.