Would You Shoot?

How would you vote if you were on the jury?

  • Guilty of murder

    Votes: 13 19.7%
  • Not guilty

    Votes: 38 57.6%
  • Guilty but of a lessor charge than murder

    Votes: 15 22.7%

  • Total voters
    66
  • Poll closed .
I have a Tennessee handgun carry permit, I keep one close at all times.
I just certainly hope I never have to use it. I think the guy was justified.
 
TheSickness said:
I am willing to bet the robbers were not white like the shooter ;) :D Also willing to bet that had they been white no shots would have been fired. The clip does not say that for some reason, I need more info on this :nurse:

To answer your question Mikey, "YES." The burglars were not white. Being an ex-cop here in Houston I have to say that I am sure the 911 caller may not get off so easily. In fact if he were to get a lenient murder charge it would be because of his age.

Texas law DOES permit one to use deadly force to protect one’s self from threat of serious bodily injury or death or the serious bodily injury or death of someone else. Texas law ALSO permits the use of force to protect one’s property if the burglar is making entry into one’s home (i.e. walking in) or entering (i.e. using his hand or something attached to his hand through a window) at any time of day. If the intruder is on your property outside the home the intruder may be “stopped” with deadly force at night (if it was proven they had intent of inflicting injury or attempting to remove items from the property). This doesn't apply the same to someone else's property and daytime is a different tune. That’s why around here the old saying goes, “To remove all doubt, shoot ‘em then drag him inside.”

If this incident would have happened at night and the burglars were trying to gain entry into the caller’s home he would be justified beyond a reasonable doubt. However, the 911 tape doesn’t help his cause. He was repeatedly advised to remain indoors, thereby keeping out of harm’s way. Instead he loaded his shotgun (letting the dispatcher hear it), knowingly stepped out of his home placing himself in a position where he can discharge his weapon under the defense they were approaching him. He had plenty of time to rethink what he was about to do. The caller sounded like he was just itching to shoot someone no matter what the dispatcher said.

I can appreciate his frustration of the elevated crime rate since Hurricane Katrina causing many thousands to be displaced to Houston. Many Houstonians are frustrated along with him. We aren’t certain if he even knows his neighbor at all. Undoubtedly, those burglars were scum for unlawfully entering someone’s home no matter what color they are, but they were human lives and should have been apprehended and tried for their crimes. The caller clearly made up his mind to kill and I wouldn’t be a bit shocked that their skin color heightened his rage.

He could have simply witnessed the crime trying to help with the investigation instead of taking the law into his own hands. Judging from the neighborhood his neighbor likely had insurance anyway. If he is found innocent then this incident will be viewed as race related. A sad situation indeed. We'll just have to wait and see what the outcome is.
 
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Venom Power said:
To answer your question Mikey, "YES." The burglars were not white. Being an ex-cop here in Houston I have to say that I am sure the 911 caller may not get off so easily. In fact if he were to get a lenient murder charge it would be because of his age.

Texas law DOES permit one to use deadly force to protect one’s self from threat of serious bodily injury or death or the serious bodily injury or death of someone else. Texas law ALSO permits the use of force to protect one’s property if the burglar is making entry into one’s home (i.e. walking in) or entering (i.e. using his hand or something attached to his hand through a window) at any time of day. If the intruder is on your property outside the home the intruder may be “stopped†with deadly force at night (if it was proven they had intent of inflicting injury or attempting to remove items from the property). This doesn't apply the same to someone else's property and daytime is a different tune. That’s why around here the old saying goes, “To remove all doubt, shoot ‘em then drag him inside.â€

If this incident would have happened at night and the burglars were trying to gain entry into the caller’s home he would be justified beyond a reasonable doubt. However, the 911 tape doesn’t help his cause. He was repeatedly advised to remain indoors, thereby keeping out of harm’s way. Instead he loaded his shotgun (letting the dispatcher hear it), knowingly stepped out of his home placing himself in a position where he can discharge his weapon under the defense they were approaching him. He had plenty of time to rethink what he was about to do. The caller sounded like he was just itching to shoot someone no matter what the dispatcher said.

I can appreciate his frustration of the elevated crime rate since Hurricane Katrina causing many thousands to be displaced to Houston. Many Houstonians are frustrated along with him. We aren’t certain if he even knows his neighbor at all. Undoubtedly, those burglars were scum for unlawfully entering someone’s home no matter what color they are, but they were human lives and should have been apprehended and tried for their crimes. The caller clearly made up his mind to kill and I wouldn’t be a bit shocked that their skin color heightened his rage.

He could have simply witnessed the crime trying to help with the investigation instead of taking the law into his own hands. Judging from the neighborhood his neighbor likely had insurance anyway. If he is found innocent then this incident will be viewed as race related. A sad situation indeed. We'll just have to wait and see what the outcome is.
Good info regarless how you feel about the shooting.
 
Venom Power's comments along with Django's are the definitive comments in my mind. Both have been law enforcement officers.

I would like to go farther than Mikey and speculate that the dead thieves are probably kids.

Some of you find it easy to say that you would kill them...I would bet in most instances those who say that have not killed before. It's easy to say, not so easy to live with the rest of your life.

No judgment here...just think...emotion has no place in the decision to take someone's life. I also think that the concept of shooting to wound is wrong. If you are going to use deadly force...better to make the decision to use deadly force in a deadly way...you shoot to wound, they just may return fire without the intention to wound.

Its kind of like going to war. Once the decision to go is made...the rest of the decisions in implementation are just ancillary.
 
Anthony made my point for me.....He knew where I was going with my comment. Roy is correct both were Law enforcement in the past just as I was. I made the point of race because that is what it's going to boil down too. From what I can ascertain that will be the crux of the matter anyway :D
Point being if the robbers where white they would not have been shot at all. Specially in Fkn Texas.....The law clearly states to protect your own personal property and life. It was a neighbors house, the kids were non white and the shooter saw an opportunity and took it. He should fry in the electric chair IMHO. Not condoning what the robbers did at all. Common sense is lacking and hate and fear took its place. I have relatives in Texas and they are all racist to some extent.....I am not saying everyone in Texas is like that but I have found it to be more likely then not in my own experiences.

The shooter was not justified in the killing so the same laws should be applied no matter what. Because he is old and white he will get away with just a slap on the wrist...Had the tables been tunned a black or Mexican shooter would already be incarcerated awaiting trial..............That is all :D
 
reading in the houston chronicle that the thieves may be illegals.

and we don't know the whole story yet,the thieves may have come at the shooter with the crow-bar they used breaking in....but of course there were no witnesses;)
 
i'm not voting but tell you my story...even in Belgium !

been robbed 3 times in my private home...

been robbed 3 times in my company... that makes 6....

Now after 6 i bought a winchester 30-30 .... it was just enough...

so 7... i was lucky , just came home, had seen them in the parking lot ... parked my TRUCK ! in the driveway so they couldn't get away with them van... i run home for gun ( just across the street ) , shoot 3 times in the air to make them understand it's serious... they came out , 3 Yougoslaviers .Called police , 3 vans :D :D , combat style pickup , van sealed clamps.... it was 10:00 PM saterday , even official national day in Belgium 21 juli...

Police let them go at 12:00.... they had no pasport , didn't talk our language... so in such cases police must phone BRUSSELS emigration ... they told to release them... not worth a case for those aliens just stealing some materials...:mad:
Most paperwork was involved my gun-license ... i wasn't allowed to shoot in the air ...:confused:
 
what if they werent burglars, but were given permission by the neighbors to go inside and get some things out of the house............he could have killed 2 innocent people.............im a die hard republican and believe in protecting your own and your property but this is waaaay over the line.
 
ChrisAZ said:
Only the OJ Simpson jury would let this guy off. He's gonna fry. Call Johnny Cochran...quick!

Newsflash......he died in 2005.
 
guinnessboy said:
what if they werent burglars, but were given permission by the neighbors to go inside and get some things out of the house............he could have killed 2 innocent people.............im a die hard republican and believe in protecting your own and your property but this is waaaay over the line.

Agreed. That's why here in Texas you are justified in protecting your life or someone else's but NOT property that is not your own. If someone is attacking you against your will YOU'D KNOW IT WITHOUT A DOUBT. If someone else were being attacked and their life was in jeopardy it would be easy to determine that they don't want that incident to occur. With property the 911 caller has no clue what his neighbor may have had planned (movers, company in from out of town, friends with permission to enter). This is why it was never made a law to protect someone's property with deadly force. He could very well have shot innocent people (not saying they were innocent but it still is a "what if" dilemma AND I don't know the whole story). As for protecting himself from being attacked by the assailants, he PLACED himself in that position by making a choice to disregard the advice of the dispatcher exiting his home knowing that there is possibly a burglary in progress. I won't necessarily say he'd fry for this (since Texas does lethal injection) but he may very well be in some "rolling boil" hot water.
 
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I believe that there is an acceptable time to end the life of another being.... Mostly, as a last resort......

OK..... If ya gotta shoot, shoot to kill...... But there's no time outs after you pull the trigger and the damage is done...... Any killing should be a solemn thing.

I see hunting in the same way. If you must hunt to eat, then by all means... Hunt and eat.... But the idea of reveling in the kill just seems barbaric to me.... Killing a defenseless animal is not sport... For me, it can only be done for survival.

Life is sacred........... It's is given by God....

Sorry....that's all.........:eek:

D
 
Django said:
I believe that there is an acceptable time to end the life of another being.... Mostly, as a last resort......

OK..... If ya gotta shoot, shoot to kill...... But there's no time outs after you pull the trigger and the damage is done...... Any killing should be a solemn thing.

D

There is no such thing as "shoot to incapacitate." It's always shoot to kill. One shouldn't point a loaded weapon at someone if they aren't willing to take that person's life. Aiming for the legs to stop 'em is for the silver screen.
 
Venom Power said:
There is no such thing as "shoot to incapacitate." It's always shoot to kill. One shouldn't point a loaded weapon at someone if they aren't willing to take that person's life. Aiming for the legs to stop 'em is for the silver screen.

I'm not sure what part of my quote (if any) that you're responding to....:dontknow:

D
 
I didn't include the hunting part because.. well... I'm not a hunter. Life IS sacred though.
 

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