RC guys, how low do you go?

[caveman]

I'll leave it at this since many of y'all are getting upset hearing facts. Engines are not meant to be lugged around in high gear below 1000rpm
And we all know gas mileage and our trucks don't add up. Y'all need some Furd Rangers or something. I can't see how you guys can put this on the forum for newbies to read and think driving in 5/6 gear at 600 rpm is proper. They'll be asking why is my engine, tranny and rear end bucking and falling apart! Really guys, I don't care who you are ,until I see one of y'all driving on video with a 24' trailer with a truck on it, in 6th gear, from the stated 600-1000 rpm, I call bullshit. If your going downhill the entire time its a little more plausible but I wanna see a 5 minute video of you superheroes pulling a 24' loaded trailer on flat land in 6th at 600 rpm! Are you trying to kill your truck for .2 mpg increase??? Dayumm I'd hate to have one of those trucks and unknowingly y'all have ride them hard and put up wet.

Have a great day and carry on.

Ohhhh, I see the problem: you don't know the definition of the word "fact". Let me help you. A fact is when something is proven to be true by supporting evidence. It's a fact that Dan ran his last truck around in 6th gear at low RPM, and had both the engine and transmission last around 100k miles. It's a fact many of us have put tens of thousands of trouble free miles driving this way.

Not a fact would be, "Engines are not meant to be lugged around in high gear below 1000rpm". That's an opinion that you failed to support using evidence.

 

[VENOMOUS1 RACING]

Also you are posting theories about how engineers say things operate. And we all know theories aren't always how things work, real world results are where the facts are. So maybe you're the one who can't handle the fact that these trucks can do what we say they do? Anyone can read a book and pretend to be an expert, getting out there and doing it is where you separate from the pretenders.

Andy, I'm at 112,500 on
My truck with almost 60k as a 6 speed and almost every vehicle I've owned has been a manual bro. So 40 years "Real World Experience" I have under my belt.
So you ask me why a manual Trans exists and that its not for performance? Well I disagree again! A manual transmission exists because it was the first transmission and as vehicles and technology evolved the automatic (fluid driven) Trans came about.
So now that that's outta the way lets look at pros and cons real quick.
PROS:
1.Direct drive via clutch/pressure plate allow more power transmitted through the driveline to tires! Been tranny of choice for all sports/muscle cars for decades due to power output and control of engine RPMs.
2. Efficiency is increases in a manual due to the direct drive and extra gears. ( this covers your "Save gas on a 500+HP engine" theory. (Again technology has created more efficient Autos with lock up converters and 5-8 speeds but you still have power loss of fluid drive
3. Cost is much less expensive to manufacture.
4. Has way less parts, much better longevity records, ease of maintenance, less expensive to replace.
5. No need for pumping of fluid through tranny or accompanying coolers and lines
6. Better when pulling/towing due to gear options and driver control of gears.

Cons:
1. Learning to drive a manual isn't for everyone
2. Driver has to change each gear.
3. Autos shift faster due to driver involment in gear changes
4. Concentration factor is less with a manual due to driver involvement
5. Manual leaves one hand on wheel while other is selecting gears
6. Stop and go traffic and hills are hard on manual

Hope this answers your question to your liking bud.

 

[VPRPWRD]

Efficiency was the answer we were looking for, not more power. Sorry!

 

[VENOMOUS1 RACING]

Ohhhh, I see the problem: you don't know the definition of the word "fact". Let me help you. A fact is when something is proven to be true by supporting evidence. It's a fact that Dan ran his last truck around in 6th gear at low RPM, and had both the engine and transmission last around 100k miles. It's a fact many of us have put tens of thousands of trouble free miles driving this way.

Not a fact would be, "Engines are not meant to be lugged around in high gear below 1000rpm". That's an opinion that you failed to support using evidence.

Yes I know the definition of a fact! So Dans word of mouth equals fact correct? I think not. I can tell you that you can't effectively drive in 6th below 1000 rpm without a trailer that's loaded with another truck of equal or more weight. That's fact!! The truck can't pull itself in 6th below 1000 much less 600rpm. I'm thinking drugs are bad mmmmkay! Leave em alone and but a Prius if mileage is your concern.
So fact is I've seen damaged trannys, engine bearings, rods etc from folks who would never hit high RPMs and don't use power adders. They simply bog around in too high a gear while the engine is struggling to make the vehicle move. The bottom end of the engine is taking severe abuse!
Again, to each his own and broken engines keep me busy so have at it :burnout:

 

[VENOMOUS1 RACING]

Efficiency was the answer we were looking for, not more power. Sorry!

Nope, it was the FIRST tranny to exist therefore it was made to motivate a car with an engine. Henry Ford have a shit less about efficiency bro. I agree he wasnt concerned with performance either, just getting a car to move in conjunction with the power from the engine.
That's why a manual exists
It exist today for the benefit of more power and driver control, not efficiency as the newer autos are within a few percent mileage wise given same driver habits, same route, same overall variables This is why autos have gone from 2 to 3 to 4 to 5 to 6 speeds up to 8 with the newer option of tiptronic and other electrically controlled autos that can mimic ( not copy) the manual tranny shift points and driver gear selection based on RPMs and load.

I want one you to show me an auto that lugs the engine below 1000 rpm and better yet 600 rpm y'all have been talking about?
I'll check back for your answers and videos

 

[mopar-or-no-car]

As dangerous as an undersized torque converter in an auto.

Sent from my SPH-L520 using Tapatalk

Hey Jason be nice we all know Scott effectively blamed that on the supplier..Just like the nitrous motor he built that went BOOM, not his fault either...Crazy how you guys would even argue with Dr Viper...:dontknow:

 

[ARRESTmeRed04]

Yes I know the definition of a fact! So Dans word of mouth equals fact correct? I think not. I can tell you that you can't effectively drive in 6th below 1000 rpm without a trailer that's loaded with another truck of equal or more weight. That's fact!! The truck can't pull itself in 6th below 1000 much less 600rpm. I'm thinking drugs are bad mmmmkay! Leave em alone and but a Prius if mileage is your concern.
So fact is I've seen damaged trannys, engine bearings, rods etc from folks who would never hit high RPMs and don't use power adders. They simply bog around in too high a gear while the engine is struggling to make the vehicle move. The bottom end of the engine is taking severe abuse!
Again, to each his own and broken engines keep me busy so have at it :burnout:

Umm, no one said they tow a trailer in 6th@600rpm, not sure wher you came up with that?

 

[caveman]

Yes I know the definition of a fact! So Dans word of mouth equals fact correct? I think not. I can tell you that you can't effectively drive in 6th below 1000 rpm without a trailer that's loaded with another truck of equal or more weight. That's fact!! The truck can't pull itself in 6th below 1000 much less 600rpm. I'm thinking drugs are bad mmmmkay! Leave em alone and but a Prius if mileage is your concern.
So fact is I've seen damaged trannys, engine bearings, rods etc from folks who would never hit high RPMs and don't use power adders. They simply bog around in too high a gear while the engine is struggling to make the vehicle move. The bottom end of the engine is taking severe abuse!
Again, to each his own and broken engines keep me busy so have at it :burnout:

I drove my truck to work this morning. I shifted into 6th at 35mph and accelerated to 50mph. That's a fact.

You know what I have learned from this thread? That a Venomous1 Racing 6 speed conversion won't pull it's own weight below 1000 RPM. I'm saddened by this fact as I have personally recommended this mod to people.

You've seen damaged transmission, engine bearings, rods etc, from engine's that were lugged. I agree that is possible. But, running our V10's at idlesque RPM's, under light load conditions, is not abuse, and is well within healthy operating perimeters. If you really need to argue this, I can probably find a way to calculate torque required vs torque produced, to quantify why you are wrong.

Umm, no one said they tow a trailer in 6th@600rpm, not sure wher you came up with that?

Justin brings up a good point, Scott. The speeds we are talking about equal about 750RPM in my truck.

 

[VENOMOUS1 RACING]

I find myself shifting at 1000-1250 rpm and regularly cruising around town just off idle. It's not uncommon for me to make the drive into town at 30-35 mph in 6th at like 600rpm. Trucks turns back like 22 mpg like that. Of course I'm not loading it like this, so it doesn't matter. Just wondering what you all do.

Here ya go Justin and Andy, very first post....and without trailer.

 

[VENOMOUS1 RACING]

Hey Jason be nice we all know Scott effectively blamed that on the supplier..Just like the nitrous motor he built that went BOOM, not his fault either...Crazy how you guys would even argue with Dr Viper...:dontknow:

First off bud I've never had an engine go boom so where you created that is beyond me but you like talking shit so I guess that's it.
I had one torque converter issue that was indeed the suppliers fault. What else
Mr. Deere? Your insults and invalid posts are old already

 

[caveman]

Here ya go Justin and Andy, very first post....and without trailer.

He said, "at like 600rpm. Basically he was estimating. And you took that and extrapolated it to say that we were all "riding them hard and putting them away wet"... kinda like how you tried to extrapolate your 0-60 time using snake oil instead of math. Unfortunately for you, this is the VTCOA and we call BS when such crap is stated.

 

[VPRPWRD]

Here ya go Justin and Andy, very first post....and without trailer.

I never said that someone didn't say 600 rpm, I have coasted along in 6th at rpm that low myself, but nobody said towing a trailer in 6th gear at 600 rpm. You took posts from multiple people and strung that together.

 

[VENOMOUS1 RACING]

This whole thread started with a guy running around at "600 rpm in 6th" then a few guys say that's ok! Then others chime in about pulling trailers at such RPM. You may have to read through all the post to see this.

 

[VPRPWRD]

This whole thread started with a guy running around at "600 rpm in 6th" then a few guys say that's ok! Then others chime in about pulling trailers at such RPM. You may have to read through all the post to see this.

I read every single post, not one person mentioned pulling a trailer at 600 rpm in 6th until you said you wanted to see a video of it.

 

[caveman]

This whole thread started with a guy running around at "600 rpm in 6th" then a few guys say that's ok! Then others chime in about pulling trailers at such RPM. You may have to read through all the post to see this.

I've read every post in this thread. The fact remains that many of us regularly use 6th gear between 35 and 45 mph, with zero impact reliability/longevity. The only other fact that I have learned from this thread is that your truck won't pull it's own weight under 1000 RPM. I'm truly surprised by this too, since you have run 12.1 through the 1/4. Maybe the lightweight UD pulley causes a loss in bottom end torque due to the loss of rotating inertia? Do you have a before and after dyno chart of an UD pulley install that we can analyze?

 

[VENOMOUS1 RACING]

I drove my truck to work this morning. I shifted into 6th at 35mph and accelerated to 50mph. That's a fact.

You know what I have learned from this thread? That a Venomous1 Racing 6 speed conversion won't pull it's own weight below 1000 RPM. I'm saddened by this fact as I have personally recommended this mod to people.

You've seen damaged transmission, engine bearings, rods etc, from engine's that were lugged. I agree that is possible. But, running our V10's at idlesque RPM's, under light load conditions, is not abuse, and is well within healthy operating perimeters. If you really need to argue this, I can probably find a way to calculate torque required vs torque produced, to quantify why you are wrong.





Justin brings up a good point, Scott. The speeds we are talking about equal about 750RPM in my truck.

Recommend as you wish, but I have a dozen conversions out there with no issue and mine has gone 60k with the exact RC tranny parts used by stock RCs. It pulls the weight just fine but nothing is meant to pull at 600-1000 rpm unless you're a diesel. Again, do as y'all wish. I will make a video of my truck in a higher gear at 600-1000 rpm and you can see its not happy there. If you feel your engine is happy lugging around go for it. Like I said, when you find me an auto that lugs the engine and goes into high gear below 1000 rpm I want to see it. The autos replicate what a manual would do basically and nowhere would any engineer lug the engine via programming of trannys shift points and converter lockup.

 

[viperhauler]

I read every single post, not one person mentioned pulling a trailer at 600 rpm in 6th until you said you wanted to see a video of it.

hang on... headed to get the jeep... video within the hour... hopefully...

loaded in 6th at 600...

 

[VENOMOUS1 RACING]

I've read every post in this thread. The fact remains that many of us regularly use 6th gear between 35 and 45 mph, with zero impact reliability/longevity. The only other fact that I have learned from this thread is that your truck won't pull it's own weight under 1000 RPM. I'm truly surprised by this too, since you have run 12.1 through the 1/4. Maybe the lightweight UD pulley causes a loss in bottom end torque due to the loss of rotating inertia? Do you have a before and after dyno chart of an UD pulley install that we can analyze?

Actually the thread shows a few of you that practice this method while countless others say otherwise. 12.1 is a fact backed by video and time slips. I never said it couldn't pull its own weight under 1000 rpm, I said I don't do it because its terrible on the engine.
UD pulley has nothing to do with this. Use stock for stock as a constant
Lets make videos of our trucks in 6th gear bogging from 35 mph. Ready???
I'm in mine right now so lets see! :chain:

 

[caveman]

I never said it couldn't pull its own weight under 1000 rpm,

Yes you did. See below.

The truck can't pull itself in 6th below 1000 much less 600rpm.

 

[VENOMOUS1 RACING]

Yes you did. See below.

Does that say "my truck"? It's a generalized statement. Yes RPMs will slowly, like molasses, climb while engine is telling you to F'n stop, lol:dontknow: