Drop-in vs. CAI

[QClikeKW]

Everyone talks about the NA engine as if it somehow requires more air than it is getting thru the stock box.
DC performance says in effect this is not so.
If you have ported heads you might need more airflow than stock can provide otherwise stock is great for once on this vehicle.
Also you talk about getting a 5 hp increase or decrease as if you could actually feel that difference in this truck.Do you seriously think so?
If a CAI flows as much as the stock system, why not, they do sound great.
Everyone again seems to assume the engine would use more if you could just get something with a higher cfm rating attached to it!
Well no maybe not without hooking a blower in between em!

 

[ViperTruck2933]

Everyone talks about the NA engine as if it somehow requires more air than it is getting thru the stock box.
DC performance says in effect this is not so.
If you have ported heads you might need more airflow than stock can provide otherwise stock is great for once on this vehicle.
Also you talk about getting a 5 hp increase or decrease as if you could actually feel that difference in this truck.Do you seriously think so?
If a CAI flows as much as the stock system, why not, they do sound great.
Everyone again seems to assume the engine would use more if you could just get something with a higher cfm rating attached to it!
Well no maybe not without hooking a blower in between em!

I don't think that's what DC Performance said at all. He clearly said with a cold motor at the drag strip the CAI would produce better ETs due to the cooler air. Read his last 2 sentences again.

 

[QClikeKW]

My bad you are correct so we can sumise that the CAI they were using was not really a cold air as heat was definately affecting it and CAI's not only sound great but would work in all situations if you got the correct one that does not suck hot air but then would it sound great?
This could go on forever until someone does Dyno pulls at the same temperture with all CAI's on the same vehicle vs Drop-ins but what if the engine temp was off a little or the outlside air was off and you only got a 5hp difference could a winner be declared?
I searched and searched but there are so many post on this could someone tell me the original post where all this Drop ins create more HP than CAI's and here's the proof started so I can read it a few times and not be mistaken about what it says?

Then we can make it a sticky and end this endless debate!

 

[outnumbered]

Common sense tells me that as the vehicle is moving, you would suck more air with an open element than a sealed box; therefore getting more fresh air, and not hot "under the hood" air. And since I'm not an engineer, I qualify for having common sense!

 

[ViperTruck2933]

My bad you are correct so we can sumise that the CAI they were using was not really a cold air as heat was definately affecting it and CAI's not only sound great but would work in all situations if you got the correct one that does not suck hot air but then would it sound great?
This could go on forever until someone does Dyno pulls at the same temperture with all CAI's on the same vehicle vs Drop-ins but what if the engine temp was off a little or the outlside air was off and you only got a 5hp difference could a winner be declared?
I searched and searched but there are so many post on this could someone tell me the original post where all this Drop ins create more HP than CAI's and here's the proof started so I can read it a few times and not be mistaken about what it says?

Then we can make it a sticky and end this endless debate!

The problem is that you are talking about dyno comparisons. The issue is 1/4 mile ET comparisons, where the air movement into the intake system is COMPLETELY different than the air movement in a shop on a dyno.
There are already endless dynos and they just don't simulate what happens when the truck is moving down the road.

Dyno results are not pertinent to the 1/4 mile ET debate. 2 different animals.

 

[includemeout]

The problem is that you are talking about dyno comparisons. The issue is 1/4 mile ET comparisons, where the air movement into the intake system is COMPLETELY different than the air movement in a shop on a dyno.
There are already endless dynos and they just don't simulate what happens when the truck is moving down the road.

Dyno results are not pertinent to the 1/4 mile ET debate. 2 different animals.

Cfm's are the question,:idea: how a bout a flow bench test, if the air can't get in what is the point

 

[ViperTruck2933]

Cfm's are the question,:idea: how a bout a flow bench test, if the air can't get in what is the point

CFM tests will give you more comparison data that you can use right along with your dyno sheets.

However, if you want to know how the CAI affects your 1/4 mile ET you gotta do your testing at the track. That's the ONLY way to get a true answer, IMHO.

Why would you conduct tests in a shop when your goal to determine ET? Take it to the track and see first hand and you don't have to speculate.:dontknow:

 

[includemeout]

CFM tests will give you more comparison data that you can use right along with your dyno sheets.

However, if you want to know how the CAI affects your 1/4 mile ET you gotta do your testing at the track. That's the ONLY way to get a true answer, IMHO.

Why would you conduct tests in a shop when your goal to determine ET? Take it to the track and see first hand and you don't have to speculate.:dontknow:

Et is the goal, but if the engine is capable of sucking more air (cfm's) and is restricted by an air cleaner that only flows air at less than what the engine is capable of, what is the point. IE: If you put a better set of heads on that flows more air and the filter is restricting the flow, see what I mean????

 

[ViperTruck2933]

Et is the goal, but if the engine is capable of sucking more air (cfm's) and is restricted by an air cleaner that only flows air at less than what the engine is capable of, what is the point. IE: If you put a better set of heads on that flows more air and the filter is restricting the flow, see what I mean????

I do see what you mean and I do not disagree with what you are saying.

I'm just pointing out that the best way to determine what a CAI will do to your 1/4 mile ET is to run the truck down the track.

 

[JRSVIPR]

I think for simplicity, It can be compared to a filter that has not been cleaned for awhile. You can feel the loss, And notice the difference when replaced. Just my .02 Engine is able to pull more air, But dirty filter is not letting it happen.


J.R.

 

[includemeout]

I do see what you mean and I do not disagree with what you are saying.

I'm just pointing out that the best way to determine what a CAI will do to your 1/4 mile ET is to run the truck down the track.

Why not start with the basics, how many cfm,s does the engine pull, the air pipe, and air cleaner. Test these first, get a known quantity, then compair dyno/ et's. Knowing the basics wiil allow a complete comparison

 

[rottenronnie]

Why not start with the basics, how many cfm,s does the engine pull, the air pipe, and air cleaner. Test these first, get a known quantity, then compair dyno/ et's. Knowing the basics wiil allow a complete comparison

How about this: The C.A.I. is the one to buy if you like "the sound".
The drop in is the one to buy if you don't.

There is not a significant change in horsepower or torque with either one.
One last time: The K&N caused a LOSS in torque and horsepower in my application, so I went with the drop-in. DC Performance found the same thing with the CAI once the engine/ambient temperature went up; as he stated: "A negative power increase"...

Ron (hopefully setting your mind at ease) Miller
Calgary

 

[z-man]

there is no way a stock air box looks and sounds better than my JMB CAI, and i just dont see how the stock air box can pull near as much air with such a small hole.

but thats just IMO

let me put it this way then:

i raced slow91 before he sold me his rc srt-10 it was stock with a k&n drop in filter

my qc had dc performance stage 2 flash, catless mids and a volant cai

result was i took him off of the line i also pushed the tow/haul mode button and when he went into 3rd he pulled on me with ease.

oh and by the way he was on his cell phone the whole time.

slow91 and svt freak are known for being good drivers and can drive the hell out of these trucks.

by the way here is the video of slow91's stock rc against a lightning with a pcm exhaust and pulley upgrade

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2780046009106484047&q=slow91+v.+l&hl=en

 

[ViperTruck2933]

Ronnie, we got your dyno results. We understand, Bro.

However, several have posted (including DC Performance) that the CAI could be a benefit at speed (cold air effect). So the issue is not at rest until someone does a test on a drag strip under real world driving conditions, not a static dyno test which does not duplicate real world conditions.

 

[rottenronnie]

Ronnie, we got your dyno results. We understand, Bro.

However, several have posted (including DC Performance) that the CAI could be a benefit at speed (cold air effect). So the issue is not at rest until someone does a test on a drag strip under real world driving conditions, not a static dyno test which does not duplicate real world conditions.

Man! This thread just won't die. I would just like to say: Neither of them really make much of a difference. At this stage, I guess I am in the "Who Cares?" category as I have tried them both and made my decision. I get (in a private email), or see a question on these posts, and I answer what my experiences have been on any given issue.

For the money I originally spent on the K&N C.A.I. kit, then the drop-in K&N, I got better results just indexing the spark plugs. That gave me a 9 horsepower gain.

Take Care,

Ronnie

 

[outnumbered]

Ronnie, we got your dyno results. We understand, Bro.

However, several have posted (including DC Performance) that the CAI could be a benefit at speed (cold air effect). So the issue is not at rest until someone does a test on a drag strip under real world driving conditions, not a static dyno test which does not duplicate real world conditions.

Well for my own curiosity, I'm going to find out!! I'm ordering a drop-in, and I'm going to end this debate once and for all.

 

[stick]

, I got better results just indexing the spark plugs. That gave me a 9 horsepower gain.

Take Care,

Ronnie

Please explain , for the dummys like me

 

[ViperTruck2933]

Well for my own curiosity, I'm going to find out!! I'm ordering a drop-in, and I'm going to end this debate once and for all.

That's all we need, lol. A simple test at the track would provide the answer.

 

[VNM PWRD]

Please explain , for the dummys like me

ndexing refers to an old racer's trick whereby the spark plugs are installed so that the ground electrode is oriented to face the intake valve (usually) in an effort to "open up" the spark to the incoming air/fuel charge. This is accomplished by placing a washer underneath the spark plug's shoulder area (of a specified thickness) so that after properly torqueing the spark plug, the electrode would be pointed in the desired direction, usually towards the incoming air/fuel charge from the intake valve.

Some racers have discovered that certain engine configurations made more power with the spark plug pointed away from the air fuel mixture.

It is important to note that any power increase will be small, typically 1-2% of total engine output, and the proper indexing orientation can only be discovered after extensive engine dyno testing.

Indexing is a waste of time for racers that do not have the training or the dyno facilities to document the results of their efforts. However, professional race teams racing in classes that have strict engine specifications can gain a slight edge over their competitors when spark plugs are indexed for optimum performance, provided they have performed adequate dyno testing.

 

[stick]

Thankyou for explaining,,,,, dam it almost sounded like something i could do until you explained it to me,,, thanks again