DC Performance or Roe Racing
LETS TALK ENGINES!
- Thread starter Yellow venom
- Start date
DC Performance or Roe Racing
or JTSVP, he will make you a good deal on a cam
How much more would better rods and pistons weigh compared to stock ones? Would have to add weight to the crank for balance I would imagine? I would love to do a cam change but going that far apart, might as well forge it! Which gets expensive when considering how much use in this part of the world
Thats a huge difference bud! you can do heads & cam without needing to forge..... forced induction, nos or a really aggressive tune will make you require forging.....
But once you get that far there are only about 6 more bolts and you have the engine out! Yea , slight exageration !!! Lol
adding pistons and rods does nothing for performance , basically they add strength
it will add some depending on what you do and what you go with , but bascially you are strengthining the amount of performance you can achieve,
I wouldnt want anyone that purchases pistons an rods from me to think they will add 100hp by just going this route.
now bump compression, coating the pistons, different rings so on, those make a difference.
the other day we looked into doing some lifter with guides on Mike Baabs engine, after looking into it, there is no real gains,
Jeff had a set of 8k lifters setting ther out of a spec engine, they were def nice, LOLOL but in our apps, or a normal app, changing certian things dont benifit us to be worth the while.
it will add some depending on what you do and what you go with , but bascially you are strengthining the amount of performance you can achieve,
I wouldnt want anyone that purchases pistons an rods from me to think they will add 100hp by just going this route.
now bump compression, coating the pistons, different rings so on, those make a difference.
the other day we looked into doing some lifter with guides on Mike Baabs engine, after looking into it, there is no real gains,
Jeff had a set of 8k lifters setting ther out of a spec engine, they were def nice, LOLOL but in our apps, or a normal app, changing certian things dont benifit us to be worth the while.
yellowfever#154
Full Access Member
adding pistons and rods does nothing for performance , basically they add strength
it will add some depending on what you do and what you go with , but bascially you are strengthining the amount of performance you can achieve,
I wouldnt want anyone that purchases pistons an rods from me to think they will add 100hp by just going this route.
now bump compression, coating the pistons, different rings so on, those make a difference.
the other day we looked into doing some lifter with guides on Mike Baabs engine, after looking into it, there is no real gains,
Jeff had a set of 8k lifters setting ther out of a spec engine, they were def nice, LOLOL but in our apps, or a normal app, changing certian things dont benifit us to be worth the while.
Lighter rods and pistons will make a difference. They reduce bottom end loads, create a higher redline, and faster reving engine.
There is not any gains when bushing lifters other than oil control, changing angles on the valve train, or changing to a different size of lifter. Which sometimes are very important, but not to us. So far our factory lifters have proven themselves.
the difference rods an pistons make are very marginal at least, its all in the design of the build , but for someone to think they can jsut replace th e rods and pistons and get any substantial gains, is just not going to happen
OnceBit
Full Access Member
I'm thinking this is gonna be a really good thread! Great info!
When going to forged goodies (or not) at least it gives you the opportunity to make some significant changes once the engine is apart. If for example you are going the newer-style Gen IV bearings you can also do some additional work (machining) and improve the o.e.m. oiling system to take advantage of them.
In many cases, the majority of the additional power (as far as the short-block goes) will come from an increase in compression provided it doesn't put the engine into detonation. Also, the shape of the piston dome itself (raised, D-cup, etc.) can make a big difference in how the mixture behaves in the chamber and how the flame front travels through it.
Machining practices to provide proper combustion chamber quench can provide optimum conditions for power and detonation resistance in a wedge chamber. If this is done properly, you can easily run a higher compression ratio (with the same octane fuel) than an engine that has not had this done. It works well on the Viper engines (and others) we have done it on.
And, as mentioned, lighter reciprocating can help in power production as well.
The o.e.m. lifters are fine, but the wishbones than hold them can be "iffy".
Ronnie
In many cases, the majority of the additional power (as far as the short-block goes) will come from an increase in compression provided it doesn't put the engine into detonation. Also, the shape of the piston dome itself (raised, D-cup, etc.) can make a big difference in how the mixture behaves in the chamber and how the flame front travels through it.
Machining practices to provide proper combustion chamber quench can provide optimum conditions for power and detonation resistance in a wedge chamber. If this is done properly, you can easily run a higher compression ratio (with the same octane fuel) than an engine that has not had this done. It works well on the Viper engines (and others) we have done it on.
And, as mentioned, lighter reciprocating can help in power production as well.
The o.e.m. lifters are fine, but the wishbones than hold them can be "iffy".
Ronnie
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Are you serious???? your an acclaimed engine builder and you make a claim like this...
common now tony do some research before you spew forth info like this, especially when people on here take what you say for truth no matter what it is...
Our motor has an extremely heavy piston, a good aftermarket forged piston saves you about 100grams per piston x 10pistons 1kg of rotating mass off the piston, that will cause major increase in acceleration in your engine and you will get down the road much faster... This goes for the rod as well, and again take your rod weight savings plus piston weight savings your upwards of 1.5 to 2Kg... That does not sound like much but in your engine that is HUGE..
If you are using a cheep eagle piston or rod which is total crap.. yes you will see no difference in performance, but if you do some research on a good piston you will see huge differences in performance..
WOW Tony you shocked me on this one.. If I was getting a twin turbo or Turbo build by someone who gave me this info I would be running out that door so fast wow...
Thats kinda uncalled for bud....Tony answered correctly...your simply added to it.....
he simply said that adding forged pistons and rods by itself doesn't ADD POWER...... It adds strength allowing you to make more power....ie. bumping compression, FI, nos.....Now you added something that he didn't mention.....weight savings...... which is a performance gain but isn't adding anything..... don't be a douch
Sorry Tony but its rip on tony day with comments like these.. Marginal and all in the design.??? are you serious ??
and why in the world would you start with a heavy piston in your design??
Ok lets put it this way maybe it will be easier to understand..
Engine A has 750hp
Engine B has 600 hp..
Which truck gets you down the track faster A or B?? Ok from this point its an obvious answer engine A..
But in fact Engine A is what we call a dyno queen. Makes big hp numbers on a dyno but it does not accelerate there for falls flat on its face at the track and here is why...
Engine A gets to 300 hp in 4.5 sec, 500hp in 5.5 seconds, 600 hp in 7 sec
Engine B gets to 300hp in 3.5sec, 500hp in 4.5 seconds, 600hp in 5.5sec, Engine B tops out here at 600 hp and shifts gears..
engine A has 150hp to go so it pulls a little further on the hp so for this last couple seconds it has more hp but car B is long gone as its had an entire 100hp more for the previous 7 seconds and is far ahead, The extra 150hp is going to make no difference because car B's disadvantage in HP loss is more than made up for in acceleration, So For the next 2 sec to get car A to 750hp, car A has an advantage. so out of a 9 second run car A had an extra 100 hp for 7 seconds of that run ... Car B wins..
Engine A has the heavier piston Eagle for example
Engine B has lighter pistons rods etc..now it accelerates faster because its lighter.. and faster acceleration means going threw the rpms faster and going threw the gears quicker therefor getting down the road quicker..
And I know the seconds i am using are not accurate but its an example which will hold true in the real world..
If it gets you down the track quicker thats adding something.. If your building a dyno queen.. no it does nothing for you.. But if you building a real world car yes its huge..and on an engine our size its a major major component of a new engine build or a NA build...
and sorry I had to be a douch but when a builder is claiming things like this its absurd .. Now if he was a joe blow guy on the forum sure he would not know any better or should not need to .. But common this guy is doing 40k builds ... and then says its all in the design.. ... :dontknow::dontknow:
once again i call you a ****..... I believe you are taking his words and twisting them how you want to see them.......... He still has not said that lighter rods/pistons aren't better......he's jsut saying that adding "upgraded" rods/pistons don't ADD HORSEPOWER by themselves..... By design and build he's talking about shape of the piston, rings etc...... your twisting his words for your own satisfaction buddy
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im not arguing with you about being right or wrong....yes i agree that forged parts (which are lighter) will increase performance.....but it will not increase Horsepower alone....same thing Tony is saying..... He just didn't go in detail and write a whole frickin paragraph like you are....
I'm sure he's busy working on peoples parts :rock:
Straight from him in the same paragraph.... focus on the highlighted areas then read EVERYTHING...... He's replying to a guy thats not a engine guru! He's simply just not getting into detail with it but letting the guy know that switching to forged rod/pistons isn't going to give him a shit-ton (100) horespower..... Which i take that as, if your on a budget thats nowhere near the top of my mods list....if you have deep pockets and what EVERY BIT of PERFORMANCE knock yourself out......
adding pistons and rods does nothing for performance , basically they add strength
it will add some depending on what you do and what you go with , but bascially you are strengthining the amount of performance you can achieve, I wouldnt want anyone that purchases pistons an rods from me to think they will add 100hp by just going this route.
now bump compression, coating the pistons, different rings so on, those make a difference.
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anyhow my point has been made, sorry if i hurt your feelings by trying to show you that your boyfriend might need to read up a little on his engine building skills.. Anyhow Im done on this topic with you... Point made and thats all that needs to be made.. Now if something differnet comes up on this thread ill comment but this part im done with.
thank you
thank you
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