LETS TALK ENGINES!

[wesalbert]

I thought this was getting interesting :dontknow:

I do have a question though.
What engine would produce more torque? The one with heavier internals?
I only ask because I don't know.

 

[JTS VENOM PERFORMANCE]

Your beating a dead horse troy, I dont pay him any attention, anyone that has spoken with me on engines know I tell them straight an up front what to expect and what can be done, and how to acheive what they want.

this is one reason I rarely ever post on the subjects anymore because folks will take one word or sentence an make it say what they want it to say,

there will allways be haters out there, and thats ok, evidently I must be doing something right.

you can get all into piston design rod design wieght, rotating mass, cam specs , coatings, oiling and fueling systems, and everyone is going to have there own ideas, but most of the guys that want there engines built dont understand the technical side of the operations, so as with anyone, I jsut speak common sense, that way most everyone can understand.

and alot of folks think jsut because you install, lets say it correctly for the mass'es "a generic aftermarket rod and piston combo" that you will gain a ton of hp, and you will not, thats jsut a fact.

I am confident in what we do and supply, and I really dont pay any attention to what folks say anymore, the folks that have dealt with me, and will deal with me , understand and understand that what they get will be correct for what they want in the end.

the ******* can do and say as they want, but I was here yesterday, I am here today, and I will be here tomorrow, there ***** twiddling is not going to change that............

 

[Troy's QC SRT]

Wes the difference would be minimum..... If you take stock cast pistons and take forged pistons the same shape they will make little to non difference on the dyno..... If the forged piston is truly lighter than the cast ( high quality) the lighter one will simply have gains due to less reciprocating mass....


And Venomous if you want you can be my girlfriend..... I always wear the pants

 

[SRT10VENOMOUS]

I thought this was getting interesting :dontknow:

I do have a question though.
What engine would produce more torque? The one with heavier internals?
I only ask because I don't know.

heavier is always bad, Im no builder or have i ever built an engine, but I dont think you will see results on a dyno for hp or tq. the place you will see any difference is on the road/track.. So a heavy piston will just cause you to get to your max rpm slower, i dont think hp or tq is affected...

So i think your hp/tq will not change but real world performance will suffer from the heavier piston.. so heavy piston= bad no matter what application as far as I know...

 

[wesalbert]

ok,then... in basic terms, what increases or decreases torque?

I just thought that a small motor with less weight internals (like a little honda) would generate less tq because of the weight of the rotating mass. :dontknow:
Whats the difference in weight of a light piston or a heavy piston (and rods) for our trucks. Were only talking grams aren't we?

 

[Troy's QC SRT]

Tony i really wasn't argueing with him to defend you..... Just letting it be known for people reading so they dont mix up his words and think that since he's saying your an idiot that they will see huge gains from forged internals....if not from HP from weight savings..... Thats just simply not the case.....you know it, i know it and others do as well....... But no doubt he's right.....high quality light weight forged internals will perform better than cast internals but not enough to justify rebuilding your motor if your never going to go FI, spray or do some kind of wild build...... It's just not worth the money....... Now if my motor was blown and I needed a rebuild and had the extra coin, yes I would go forged....if not oem cast it is!

 

[Troy's QC SRT]

ok,then... in basic terms, what increases or decreases torque?

I just thought that a small motor with less weight internals (like a little honda) would generate less tq because of the weight of the rotating mass. :dontknow:
Whats the difference in weight of a light piston or a heavy piston (and rods) for our trucks. Were only talking grams aren't we?

Wes flowing more air/fuel is the only way to add hp/tq.....now the debatable topic is whats the right/most effective way to do that.....

everything else is simply freeing hp/tq thats already there up aka. being more efficient!

 

[SRT10VENOMOUS]

"a generic aftermarket rod and piston combo" that you will gain a ton of hp, and you will not, thats jsut a fact.

No one said you would gain hp.. In fact I said you will not gain any hp/tq but you will get to your numbers faster therefor getting you down the track faster.. Now if were talking dyno queen.. they yep dont worry about the wight will not make a difference.. depends what you are looking for i guess..


I am confident in what we do and supply, and I really dont pay any attention to what folks say anymore, the folks that have dealt with me, and will deal with me , understand and understand that what they get will be correct for what they want in the end.

How would it be correct if you claim a lighter piston and rod will not help performance??? .. They will get what you give them in the end,, And they will not know any better or expect anything different because they believe you no matter what you say... so im just shedding some light that well maybe they should do some research before jumping in head first ..



the ******** can do and say as they want, but I was here yesterday, I am here today, and I will be here tomorrow, there **** twiddling is not going to change that....

Sorry but it makes no difference how long you are here or intend to be here.. This does not make up for giving out wrong info or doing 40k builds with the wrong components because you did not know better and claimed you did.. then get caught with your pants down and then start the game that your right no matter what... Ive seen several posts of your claiming eagle rods and pistons.. and i know for a fact there are components out there 100grams lighter per item.. so why in the world would you use heavier pistons??? the only reason is your lack of knowledge on a viper motor.. sorry bro.. thats just the way it is.... hey you may build some sweet dyno queens and good on ya.. if thats what you are lookin to build...

 

[SRT10VENOMOUS]

ok,then... in basic terms, what increases or decreases torque?

I just thought that a small motor with less weight internals (like a little honda) would generate less tq because of the weight of the rotating mass. :dontknow:
Whats the difference in weight of a light piston or a heavy piston (and rods) for our trucks. Were only talking grams aren't we?

not sure on your tq question but as for weight ,, 100grams a piston x 10 pistons that 1KG or 2.5lbs,, and something similar for a rod so another 1KG thats 5lbs off the internals of your engine you will notice your tack spike much quicker and you will be in 4 gear across the finish line that much quicker as well...

 

[JTS VENOM PERFORMANCE]

not even worth a reply , sorry guys this is old, get another vendor to take care of yuns

 

[yellow446]

ok,then... in basic terms, what increases or decreases torque?

I just thought that a small motor with less weight internals (like a little honda) would generate less tq because of the weight of the rotating mass. :dontknow:
Whats the difference in weight of a light piston or a heavy piston (and rods) for our trucks. Were only talking grams aren't we?

Ok on 4 cylinder motor . 2.0 chevy makes more tq on bottom end then 2.4 turbo dodge . But on a top end 2.4 turbo makes more tq .
On naturali asirated motors , your tourque maker is restricter plate and your exhaust manifold . Bigger plate betwine your carb and intake manifold more power you gain . And if you want more tq you go for short headers and if you want more hp you go for long headers .

 

[SRT10VENOMOUS]

not even worth a reply , sorry guys this shit is old, get another vendor to take care of yuns

The truth gets old.. thats sad... just admit you made a mistake and you dont know as much as you claim to and ill leave ya alone...

and dont worry id never use you for a vendor.. ive already found many others who actually know what they are talking about...

but sadly you can only say this get old and sulk off.. i wish you would back up your claims of no performance gained and explain why.. but you cant so tuck your tail between your legs and run...

 

[yellow446]

Sorry I was talking about carbonated motors .

 

[JTS VENOM PERFORMANCE]

hehehehee

 

[rottenronnie]

ok,then... in basic terms, what increases or decreases torque?

I just thought that a small motor with less weight internals (like a little honda) would generate less tq because of the weight of the rotating mass. :dontknow:
Whats the difference in weight of a light piston or a heavy piston (and rods) for our trucks. Were only talking grams aren't we?

Evening Drama !!... COOL, AWESOME, POTENTIALLY BORING !!

"We now return to our thread"...

wesalbert-

Anyway, horsepower is torque measured over time. Some engines are better at producing torque and some at producing horsepower. And some are pretty good at both. Here are some examples...

Diesels have heavy internal parts to take the abuse of constant detonation and produce mountains of torque. But they don't produce torque because they're heavy they produce it because they have extremely high cylinder pressures. And that is what power is: Cylinder pressure. They don't have huge horsepower numbers because they don't breathe well enough, to rev high enough, to produce it. And yes, that is also because they are heavy inside.

Harleys produce lots of low r.p.m. torque in comparison to a high-performance Japanese bike that makes more horsepower than a Harley because it revs a zillion r.p.m. and has the valve train setup and breathing to accomplish that. Remember horsepower is torque measured over time.

The older big block Buicks and Oldsmobiles made a lot of torque as well but neither had good enough heads and induction systems that would allow them to produce a lot of horsepower (in comparison to their torque).

There are now regular-gas production V6 t.t. (12 p.s.i.) 10:1 engines that produce 420 ft. lbs of torque @2500 out of 211 cu. inches and pull more like a diesel than a gas engine. But they are also 365 horsepower because they CAN breathe (4-valve) and rev high enough to produce that.

Improving volumetric efficiency (or mass efficiency) and improvements in torque are closely tied. Improve breathing (IN THE INTENDED R.P.M. RANGE) and improvements in torque will follow. Like Troy just said.

To make matters worse, there are exceptions to most rules. You can make a diesel and a Harley and an older Buick/Oldsmobile produce lots of horsepower. I'm just trying to provide examples of different engine types and why some make torque and some horsepower and some both.

When I build a Viper engine for a heavy truck, I favor torque. And for a Viper car, horsepower.

Unfortunately, there is a lot of misinformation out there. I get pm'd from guys that have been sales-pitched (through a back-door pm) with info that is TOTAL crap. So, as always, you'll have to do your homework.

I don't know if that helped or not...

Ronnie

 

[SRT10VENOMOUS]

Unfortunately, there is a lot of misinformation out there. I get pm'd from guys that have been sales-pitched (through a back-door pm) with info that is TOTAL crap.
Ronnie

Back door pming ohh sounds fun lol.. so what kinda backdoor sales pitch pming is going on and what is the total crap... lets hear it...
whos sellin stuff?? the only ones I know are Ronnie,tony,jbm, on here ...

 

[Slitherbeast]

Lighter rods and pistons will make a difference. They reduce bottom end loads, create a higher redline, and faster reving engine.

There is not any gains when bushing lifters other than oil control, changing angles on the valve train, or changing to a different size of lifter. Which sometimes are very important, but not to us. So far our factory lifters have proven themselves.[/QUOTE/].

Ok. So. Better rods and forged pistons are lighter than stock so if I was to change cam and heads. Installing rods and pistons shouldn't be to expensive. And it would be worthwhile . Stock parts are only good to 600 HP and that is pushing it! If the engine is that far apart to do heads and cam there isn't much left to take apart

 

[Yellow venom]

Lighter rods and pistons will make a difference. They reduce bottom end loads, create a higher redline, and faster reving engine.

There is not any gains when bushing lifters other than oil control, changing angles on the valve train, or changing to a different size of lifter. Which sometimes are very important, but not to us. So far our factory lifters have proven themselves.[/QUOTE/].

Ok. So. Better rods and forged pistons are lighter than stock so if I was to change cam and heads. Installing rods and pistons shouldn't be to expensive. And it would be worthwhile . Stock parts are only good to 600 HP and that is pushing it! If the engine is that far apart to do heads and cam there isn't much left to take apart

From what I'm gathering is when u put lighter pistons and rods in, your engine will pick up rpm quicker, but you would only see a benefit in the quicker rpm gain with some help like FI or spraying it.

 

[Troy's QC SRT]

Lighter rods and pistons will make a difference. They reduce bottom end loads, create a higher redline, and faster reving engine.

There is not any gains when bushing lifters other than oil control, changing angles on the valve train, or changing to a different size of lifter. Which sometimes are very important, but not to us. So far our factory lifters have proven themselves.[/QUOTE/].

Ok. So. Better rods and forged pistons are lighter than stock so if I was to change cam and heads. Installing rods and pistons shouldn't be to expensive. And it would be worthwhile . Stock parts are only good to 600 HP and that is pushing it! If the engine is that far apart to do heads and cam there isn't much left to take apart

I don't know what your pockets look like but if your calling that inexpensive they must be deep.....for what your goal is ill wait, let you do some real world pricing including getting the work done if your not an engine builder then get back to us......

 

[VENOMOUS1 RACING]

From what I'm gathering is when u put lighter pistons and rods in, your engine will pick up rpm quicker, but you would only see a benefit in the quicker rpm gain with some help like FI or spraying it.

Not true again, it benefits all motors regardless of induction type. It's really simple, like a torque converter, less rotating mass. Like an Aluminum Flywheel, Less rotating mass. Like Aluminum skinnys, less rotating mass. It all boils down to saving the weight on reciprocating parts in an assembly, whether motor, clutch, wheels, driveshafts etc.

And to Tony and Troy, it hasn't still been made clear that a piston swap, by itself, CAN PROVIDE A SUBSTANTIAL GAIN IN POWER BY USING A DOMED, CROWNED OR "POP-UP" STYLE PISTON!!!! You are changing the combustion chamber attributes and increasing cylinder pressure as RONNIE noted, which will result in MORE POWER! Now for FI and N2O engines you actually reduce cylinder pressure on the motor as the BLOWER,TURBO, OR N2O will increase CYLINDER PRESSURE in the engine when intorduced. These use dished pistons that actually have compression dropped to below factory standards. Again, as the Canadian has said, if you can control the Detonation Factor you can build alot of cylinder pressure and reap HP benefits and the forged pistons simply help stand the additional pressures and occasional detonation if it were to occur.

Perfect timing with regards to cylinder head combustion chamber, cam profile, compression ratio, and fueling all attribute to running a higher compression NA motor as well as FI engines. In other words just an incorrect tune itself can grenade an otherwise bulletproof engine.

Just my .02, and I never have built a Viper V10, but I did stay in a Holiday INN Express last night,:marchmellow:

I have built several blower engines as well as high compression NA engines in the past, however, and have a decent knowledge of an engines desires to be as efficient per C.I as possible. Some technilogy just hasn't evolved with our engines yet. Alot to be discovered though.