Weapons: A group therapy session

[NBT]

Actually, 21 feet is the most realistic range at which a conflict occurs, based on actual police reports. sorry I don't have source

:dito:
It has been argued that an armed person could not draw and shoot an approaching person in time closer than 21 feet.... :dontknow:

The Tueller Drill

You just need a friend to help out, any physical condition,
Find somewhere where you have some room. Standing back to back with your friend. Have his/her right heel, touching your left heel and have them place their right hand on your left shoulder. You are standing relaxed, hands at you side.

Clear you weapon and holster. When they are ready, have them run as fast as possible away from you. (try to have them do this without giggling like a little girl, it's very distracting ) Now the second you feel their hand leave your should, you draw and fire (empty gun of cause). You can even draw and fire 'cowboy' style, i.e. close retention. As soon as your partner hears the snap, stop, and I do mean stop (I'll come back to this in a second). Now measure from your back heel to your partner's back heel. What is that distance?

If it's 21 ft or greater, you've just been cut multiple times, possible before you've had a chance to draw.

Now repeat the above exercise, but this time from low ready, two hand hold. Raise the gun to eye level (to simulate aimed fire) the instant you feel their hand leave your shoulder, and double tap, now, what's the results? I bet you'd be surprised.

http://bulk.resource.org/courts.gov/c/F3/161/161.F3d.782.97-1652.html
According to the officers, the Chapel Hill police department trains them in dealing with persons armed with knives. As Officer Snyder stated, "We are trained--twenty-one feet is the closest you let some-one get with an edged weapon because they can cut you or kill you before you can even fire." This policy is confirmed by a police expert, who stated that the 21-feet standard "is based on studies which have shown that an armed individual within twenty-one feet of an officer still has time to get to the officer and stab and fatally wound the officer even if the officer has his weapon brandished and is prepared to or has fired a shot."

"beyond the Tueller Drill"
http://www.policemag.com/Articles/2008/11/Beyond-the-Tueller-Drill.aspx


http://defendyourself101.ca/articles/hidden-lesson-tueller-drill

 

[Black1]

Very interesting info, Ken.

 

[NBT]

Very interesting info, Ken.

Simunitions make this fun to try...We did alot of it when I was with the SWAT team... I loved being the perp... Till I put three in the shield, and one in his leg...does not matter if it's paint...the fellas still get worked up...I never minded the rough housing.
http://www.simunition.com/cartridges/fx_training_en.php

 

[NBT]

I bought a LAR15 (rock river arms)from a friend who was overseas about a year and a half ago. Ive only fired 12 rounds through it. He said he only shot 20. it has tactical front grips, and the A2's plus an EOtech with the correct rear site for the EOtech, I paid a 1000.00 for it. Hope it was a good deal:dontknow: .

Stole it...the Eotech was worth half the 1K... a RRA NIB is 1K.:rock:

This is the "jump bag"...

This is with me at "all" times.

These pics will self destruct in 4 hours.

 

[DevilDawg3097]

:dito:
It has been argued that an armed person could not draw and shoot an approaching person in time closer than 21 feet.... :dontknow:

The Tueller Drill

You just need a friend to help out, any physical condition,
Find somewhere where you have some room. Standing back to back with your friend. Have his/her right heel, touching your left heel and have them place their right hand on your left shoulder. You are standing relaxed, hands at you side.

Clear you weapon and holster. When they are ready, have them run as fast as possible away from you. (try to have them do this without giggling like a little girl, it's very distracting ) Now the second you feel their hand leave your should, you draw and fire (empty gun of cause). You can even draw and fire 'cowboy' style, i.e. close retention. As soon as your partner hears the snap, stop, and I do mean stop (I'll come back to this in a second). Now measure from your back heel to your partner's back heel. What is that distance?

If it's 21 ft or greater, you've just been cut multiple times, possible before you've had a chance to draw.

Now repeat the above exercise, but this time from low ready, two hand hold. Raise the gun to eye level (to simulate aimed fire) the instant you feel their hand leave your shoulder, and double tap, now, what's the results? I bet you'd be surprised.

http://bulk.resource.org/courts.gov/c/F3/161/161.F3d.782.97-1652.html
According to the officers, the Chapel Hill police department trains them in dealing with persons armed with knives. As Officer Snyder stated, "We are trained--twenty-one feet is the closest you let some-one get with an edged weapon because they can cut you or kill you before you can even fire." This policy is confirmed by a police expert, who stated that the 21-feet standard "is based on studies which have shown that an armed individual within twenty-one feet of an officer still has time to get to the officer and stab and fatally wound the officer even if the officer has his weapon brandished and is prepared to or has fired a shot."

"beyond the Tueller Drill"
http://www.policemag.com/Articles/2008/11/Beyond-the-Tueller-Drill.aspx


http://defendyourself101.ca/articles/hidden-lesson-tueller-drill

They also forgot to state the fact that usually that first round is a big miss. Only CQC (seals, recon, special forces) training on daily bases hit the perp with the first shot. They also had a shot out a while ago in the city 3 cops 2 bad guys fired over 50 rounds and only two hits both non life threating. it isnt real until it is REAL.

 

[Black1]

LOOOOOVE that Ruger LCP.....

..... You need to spend a little "RNR" over here, Ken. We can go shooting! (I'm being selfish, because I just want a chance to shoot that little bogger ). What are you doing next week (whatever day, besides Friday)? I need some help putting back together the suspension on the Vette too! :marchmellow:

 

[srt 10 jimbo]

I got 2 shotguns for sale on floridaguntrader.com If anyones intrested from florida. been looking for an lcp, hard to fid.

 

[WizzySRT10]

I'm currently trying to set up a Pistol and a tactical rifle course at a friends gravel pit. There's a nice back stop, 2 trailer houses sitting, a shed, and few old cars that don't run. I think it would be perfect all we have to do is set up the lanes and etc.

 

[NBT]

LOOOOOVE that Ruger LCP.....

..... You need to spend a little "RNR" over here, Ken. We can go shooting! (I'm being selfish, because I just want a chance to shoot that little bogger ). What are you doing next week (whatever day, besides Friday)? I need some help putting back together the suspension on the Vette too! :marchmellow:

Would LOVE to make the trip over...honestly...I am waiting for someone to stuff a needle with steroids into my neck...I got to tell you...being compliant in the healthcare system down here is BS...no one in a hurry to help at all.:argh:
Work on the vette huh...that would be cool...not that I would be much help....I could keep the Kabulls rolling, and be the "tool boy"... :marchmellow:
I got a few rounds to crack off for sure...I could just bring the jump bag and the shooting box....get the chance to warm up the AR, .380, 40 S&W, .22, and the 12 gauge.... you would have to do all the shooting, as the fingers on the hands get numb pretty quick... I'm pretty sure you would be good with it.
I am on a 40 hour work week (modified duty) now though...so I am pretty much screwed until the weekends. Who knows....maybe I can talk to the Mrs's, and I can get her to make a trip...I am sure she would love to get the hell out of here for a weekend. We will have to work on this in a bit more detail over the next few weeks or so...I really need this neck to ease up first though. You will love the LCP...grouped great at 21 feet:rock:

I got 2 shotguns for sale on floridaguntrader.com If anyones intrested from florida. been looking for an lcp, hard to find.

I know where there are "plenty" of them. We have a dealer that our City works with...they have been getting about 20 LCP's at at a time....about every other month.
What kind of shotguns? Yours the "500"? Link?

 

[WizzySRT10]

Thanks Ken and Jake now I wish I was in FL I'd go shooting with you two. But the great thing living where I do is I only have to drive 3 miles to an indoor range, and 5 miles to a 100 feet pistol range, 50 yard range, 100 yard range, 300, 500 and 1000 yard range.

 

[NBT]

Thanks Ken and Jake now I wish I was in FL I'd go shooting with you two. But the great thing living where I do is I only have to drive 3 miles to an indoor range, and 5 miles to a 100 feet pistol range, 50 yard range, 100 yard range, 300, 500 and 1000 yard range.

Hey Bill...you call the other day?

It would be nice to get some "long range" shots off with the AR... all I am going to do is sight it in at 38 yards, that will keep me good to 300 yards....that's the farthest this thing will ever need to pull off....I would love to set up a reach out and touch someone rifle...been looking at the Rem 700...in 308. Right now, I am fuc*#d regarding $$...so it's just dreaming at the moment. I did play powerball for tonights 109mil drawing... Bet I dont even hit one #...:dontknow:
The .338 Lapua Mag is an interesting round... Purdy aint it...

 

[WizzySRT10]

Yeah Ken I called the other night. Just seeing what's up. I like McMillians 338 Lapua! It's nice shooting out here except for shooting with, against, or have cross wind. But once you figure out how to shoot with wind you'll be a step ahead of people where it's not windy. Yeah we use Ar's out here for Prarie Dog and Coyote Rifles.

 

[jrgnd]

My next gun...

 

[Black1]

This new Thompson Center Warlord is a bad mutha too. :rock:

 

[WizzySRT10]

So many choices not enough money!!!

 

[NBT]

 

[srt 10 jimbo]

Not the kind of rifles I go hog hunting with, I'll take my Marlin 336,.35 cal

 

[HOT RAM]

This new Thompson Center Warlord is a bad mutha too. :rock:

NICE !!!!!!!!!!!!! :rock:

 

[devildog02]

Stole it...the Eotech was worth half the 1K... a RRA NIB is 1K.:rock:

This is the "jump bag"...

This is with me at "all" times.

These pics will self destruct in 4 hours.

thanks for the info, I looked up prices on all the extras and I thought it was a good deal. It is CLEAN! I need to get a digital camera.

 

[WizzySRT10]

This new Thompson Center Warlord is a bad mutha too. :rock:

You just had to post that up.

When you need to reach out and touch somebody

I have a Dream