48re solenoid upgrade update

[24/7 WOT]

UPDATE ON THE CONVERSION???? how is your truck shifting!

I just bought the gm conversion and shift kit.

 

[kickinassrt-10]

That's what mine is in the shop for right now.....I had extreme 121212 shifts and a very very bad 2-3 shift problem.....I would mash it at 35mph expecting that monster-ous downshift and nothing.....it just gradually carried through the gear...felt like I was driving a Hemi..oh no!!! If you are having the 2-3 problem get it checked out..chances are your discs are shot and worn like mine

 

[bigike]

the 1212121 is a gov sol problem, looks like a fix is the gm solenoid. 2-3 timing I think has a lot to do with that 4.2 lever.

 

[jrgnd]

Ok folks...It's been a while since I posted...

The mod worked great until it failed at about 1500 miles.

I don't think that the mod failed due to the conditions it met, but rather it wasn't installed properly(Highly unlikely) or was deffective to begin with.

Make sure that the selinoid is impedance match to the rest of the circuit. My mechanic failed to do that.

The seller is refusing to replace the part at no cost(plus shipping) so I am not going to pay another $150 to replace a part that was most likely defective from the manufacture.

If we can't find the part in a GM dealership, then I might just put the stock selinoid back in...

Sorry for the delay in posting, but I have been all over the place and didn't have regular access to the internet...

 

[oldguysrt10]

the 1212121 is a gov sol problem, looks like a fix is the gm solenoid. 2-3 timing I think has a lot to do with that 4.2 lever.

Not really pertinent to this thread but with my transmission apart the tech. checked the lever in mine. For what it's worth it has the 5.0. Had it not his intent was to switch to the 5.0 as an upgrade.

oldguy

 

[dhawk]

Did your "trans tech" ever maybe think that the 5.0 lever was part of the cause of frt clutch failure? If not, you should probably take your truck elsewhere because he hasn't learned much since 1983. One more time for everybody.
1) The gm conversion is fixing a symptom, not a cause.
2) The 5.0 lever was used in the 48re because chrysler wanted more apply pressure for second gear but it is weak where the pin hole is drilled and it causes a massive bindup on the 2-3 shift. Some times the band gets burned a little but the front clutch takes the majority of the brunt.
3) The valve bodies in the 48re are the absolute worst for quality control. They are warped and they crossleak.
4) Do not use the trans-go manual valve if you use the trans-go shift kit.
( I wouldn't use it the shift kit anyway, but.)
5) UNTIL YOU STRAIGHTEN OUT THE 2-3 SHIFT TIMING(and that doesn't mean use the highest factory clearance) YOU HAVE FIXED NOTHING.
PUT IN GM SOLENOIDS, HEAVIER BANDS, GO FROM 5 CLUTCHES IN THE FRT DRUM TO 17, YOU HAVE FIXED NOTHING.

I really do at some point hope this helps. Some of you on here have called me on the phone and then went somewhere else. Some on here have called me a liar. I have spilled most of the secret for the 48re over the phone and on the internet, yet you all want the magic bullet. You will all be much happier when you stop bandaiding symptoms and start repairing problems.

Dhawk

 

[bigike]

Hey Dusty, hows it goin hoss?

I'm just bidding my time tell I can afford the upgrade. If it makes the transmission last a year that will be good enough for me to gather the money for an HTS 48RE. One year equals 3 months of driving with my schedule

 

[Yellow venom]

Did your "trans tech" ever maybe think that the 5.0 lever was part of the cause of frt clutch failure? If not, you should probably take your truck elsewhere because he hasn't learned much since 1983. One more time for everybody.
1) The gm conversion is fixing a symptom, not a cause.
2) The 5.0 lever was used in the 48re because chrysler wanted more apply pressure for second gear but it is weak where the pin hole is drilled and it causes a massive bindup on the 2-3 shift. Some times the band gets burned a little but the front clutch takes the majority of the brunt.
3) The valve bodies in the 48re are the absolute worst for quality control. They are warped and they crossleak.
4) Do not use the trans-go manual valve if you use the trans-go shift kit.
( I wouldn't use it the shift kit anyway, but.)
5) UNTIL YOU STRAIGHTEN OUT THE 2-3 SHIFT TIMING(and that doesn't mean use the highest factory clearance) YOU HAVE FIXED NOTHING.
PUT IN GM SOLENOIDS, HEAVIER BANDS, GO FROM 5 CLUTCHES IN THE FRT DRUM TO 17, YOU HAVE FIXED NOTHING.

I really do at some point hope this helps. Some of you on here have called me on the phone and then went somewhere else. Some on here have called me a liar. I have spilled most of the secret for the 48re over the phone and on the internet, yet you all want the magic bullet. You will all be much happier when you stop bandaiding symptoms and start repairing problems.

Dhawk

I'm still going with what you have recommeneded Dusty,what you have said makes total sense "FIX THE PROBLEM" not the symptoms!!
I'm still doing the engine and the tranny will be next! Thanks again for your knowledge:congrats: :rock:

 

[outnumbered]

Dusty, In the event that my tranny needs replacing, I'll be sending the entire unit to you...so there!

 

[oldguysrt10]

Did your "trans tech" ever maybe think that the 5.0 lever was part of the cause of frt clutch failure? If not, you should probably take your truck elsewhere because he hasn't learned much since 1983. One more time for everybody.
1) The gm conversion is fixing a symptom, not a cause.
2) The 5.0 lever was used in the 48re because chrysler wanted more apply pressure for second gear but it is weak where the pin hole is drilled and it causes a massive bindup on the 2-3 shift. Some times the band gets burned a little but the front clutch takes the majority of the brunt.
3) The valve bodies in the 48re are the absolute worst for quality control. They are warped and they crossleak.
4) Do not use the trans-go manual valve if you use the trans-go shift kit.
( I wouldn't use it the shift kit anyway, but.)
5) UNTIL YOU STRAIGHTEN OUT THE 2-3 SHIFT TIMING(and that doesn't mean use the highest factory clearance) YOU HAVE FIXED NOTHING.
PUT IN GM SOLENOIDS, HEAVIER BANDS, GO FROM 5 CLUTCHES IN THE FRT DRUM TO 17, YOU HAVE FIXED NOTHING.

I really do at some point hope this helps. Some of you on here have called me on the phone and then went somewhere else. Some on here have called me a liar. I have spilled most of the secret for the 48re over the phone and on the internet, yet you all want the magic bullet. You will all be much happier when you stop bandaiding symptoms and start repairing problems.

Dhawk

No disrespect intended but I'll favor the guy I've worked with locally for 25 years who has an excellent reputation versus taking internet advice. You may very well have the solution, and for those that opt to follow your advice I hope it works very well.

oldguy

 

[FerrariTruck]

Did your "trans tech" ever maybe think that the 5.0 lever was part of the cause of frt clutch failure? If not, you should probably take your truck elsewhere because he hasn't learned much since 1983. One more time for everybody.
1) The gm conversion is fixing a symptom, not a cause.
2) The 5.0 lever was used in the 48re because chrysler wanted more apply pressure for second gear but it is weak where the pin hole is drilled and it causes a massive bindup on the 2-3 shift. Some times the band gets burned a little but the front clutch takes the majority of the brunt.
3) The valve bodies in the 48re are the absolute worst for quality control. They are warped and they crossleak.
4) Do not use the trans-go manual valve if you use the trans-go shift kit.
( I wouldn't use it the shift kit anyway, but.)
5) UNTIL YOU STRAIGHTEN OUT THE 2-3 SHIFT TIMING(and that doesn't mean use the highest factory clearance) YOU HAVE FIXED NOTHING.
PUT IN GM SOLENOIDS, HEAVIER BANDS, GO FROM 5 CLUTCHES IN THE FRT DRUM TO 17, YOU HAVE FIXED NOTHING.

I really do at some point hope this helps. Some of you on here have called me on the phone and then went somewhere else. Some on here have called me a liar. I have spilled most of the secret for the 48re over the phone and on the internet, yet you all want the magic bullet. You will all be much happier when you stop bandaiding symptoms and start repairing problems.

Dhawk

Hey Dusty, I dont have an automatic but If I did I certainly know you have a good plan on the 48re. I quite frankly dont understand why guys here have jumped into one of your trans rebuilds. But everything you say makes absolute sense. I might have to give you a call when I tear down and rebuild my first 4l80e


All ya who need a refresher, read this thread http://www.vtcoa.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31494

 

[dhawk]

No disrespect taken. I was on a rant there and did not mean to single you out. However, didn't you find it strange that this 25 trans vet did not know the 48re had a 5.0:1 ratio lever? Is it his first one? Neither you or him could figure out why the frt clutch was cooked. I simply gave you the answer for free. We do about 150 or so 48re's a year. I spent so much time in 2003 with this problem when the 48re came out. I'm simply trying to help. Take my advice with a grain of salt. Do yourself a favor and look and the mounting hole of the 5:1 lever and you can see for yourself. Compare it to a 3.8 lever for instance. You will simply have the proof in you hand.
sincerely

 

[GriMacE 06QuadSRT10]

Dusty, In the event that my tranny needs replacing, I'll be sending the entire unit to you...so there!

What he said!!!

 

[outnumbered]

GriMacE,

Beautiful truck you have there!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[GriMacE 06QuadSRT10]

Many thanks outnumbered - I appreciate the comment - and yours ain't bad either brother!

 

[WOT]

Updates

OK, so I put in Dusty's modified valve body, the billet 1-2 accumulator with additional spring, the extra stiff 2nd gear servo return spring as well as the blockout washer. Put a brand new govenor solenoid in as well.

I only drove it around for a little while to let it get used to the new settings and fluid, etc.

All I can say is: holy crap! This thing is a completely diffferent tranny. The good news - firm, positive shifts. The 2-3 overlap has been greatly reduced, if not completely eliminated.

The bad news - the 1-2-1-2-1-2 constant shifting at light throttle is still there. I don't think it is a mechanical issue anymore (or govenor solenoid issue either). I will look at modifying the part throttle shift tables (if you can call them that) in the software. I believe I may have a fix.

Now, just to let you guys know, this tranny shifts rather hard. It is not for the faint of heart. And, I don't just mean it barks the tires in 2nd. It damn near barks them going into 4th!

At extremely light throttle, it is just a little firm, just a little more than stock. At anything above medium throttle, it shifts extremely firm. No kidding around here, this thing can get brutal.

I need to let it break in the new flluid a little bit (it will likely smooth out a little once everything settles in a bit more). I am still making some final adjustments on the 2nd gear band and throttle valve cable to see if I can get the combo how I like it. After that, I will modify the govenor curve in the software and see what I can make it do.

This may be the ultimate fix for these trannies. I still have the 5.0 lever in, but mine was in perfect shape. Hopefully, over time it won't get wallered out and start to bind up. We shall see.

 

[blackviper]

Great. Keep us posted.

 

[bigike]

ALL RIGHT!!!!!!!!

This makes me happy! I'm going to buy the VlV body and put it in my piece of junk along with the solenoid. And what ever else Dusty tells me to buy.

Here is what he will tell me................. Look Jay, now you've spent 1,500 dollars on a paper wieght, should have just bought MY transmission...................... O well LIVE AND LEARN!:rock: :rock: :rock: :rock:

Wide Open you keep us up to date on the software!

 

[WOT]

Quick progress update:

I wasn't real happy with how hard the truck was shifting -- I figured the drive shaft was going to get thrown out from under the truck in a couple of weeks. So I tried a couple of things:

I loosened the 2nd gear front band up to 2 turns out from 72 inch-pounds. The factory spec is tighten the screw to 72 inch-pounds and then back the screw off 1.5 turns for the SRT-10 and 1.75 for the diesel. I guess they figured that the diesel is less revvy and won't do a 2-3 flare at light throttle, so it can have the band a little looser.

I still had some 2-3 overlap at part throttle with it set at 1.5 turns so I though I would see if backing it off some more would help. My thought was that if I could eliminate some of the 2-3 overlap, then I could loosen the TV cable just until I started getting a 2-3 flare at very light throttle, and that would be the softest setting that I could safely set the TV. Well, I can loosen the TV cable up a whole, whole bunch and still function fairly well. The danger of having the TV cable too loose is that you can start to get some slip at medium throttle due to throttle pressure not modifying line pressure enough, say while pulling a trailer down the highway. Plus, the tranny won't have full pressure at wide open throttle and it might not downshift when it should. So, I tightened it up some, and it seems to be shifting OK but still a little too hard. Hence, loosening up the 2nd gear band helped quite a bit and allowed me to adjust shift quality somewhat with the TV cable.

So, I tightened my TV cable to where it seemed about right, but it was still shifting too hard during the all of the shifts, the 1-2, the 2-3, and especially the 3-4. My next thought was that when the fluid is new, it seems really grippy. It seems like as soon as the tranny shifts, it grabs the gear and goes. No cushioning the shift whatsoever. If the engagement would take say another couple of milliseconds, the part throttle shifting would be much improved. And, Dusty's valve body eliminates a bunch of these mechanical cushioning devices built in to the tranny (it's a necessary evil in order to fix the 2-3 overlap problem). But it seemed to me that if the clutches and bands could just be a little less grippy, we would have the perfect combination: fast shifts, but reasonable smooth shifts (they shouldn't have to be mutually exclusive). So I set out looking for less grippy fluid, and I found this product called Dr Tranny. It is a little 4 oz tube of friction modifier that is used to reduce torque converter lock-up shudder. Basically, it is an extreme pressure additive that smooths the engagement of wet clutch packs. It's kinda' like the limited slip additive you put in the rear axle when you have posi chatter.

So I put some of that in, went for a test drive, and voilà! The truck shifts (reasonably) smooth at light throttle and firm at medium throttle. At full throttle, it barks the tires going into 2nd and shifts hard going into 3rd and 4th. This is a huge improvement over the previously brutal shifts. At least now my drive shaft may live to see another day.

My next fix that I am trying out tonight is to modify the governor curve so that I can keep the TV cable reasonable tight and not have overly sensitive downshifts. I still have the TV cable looser than the factory spec, but I would like to be able to tighten it as the fluid breaks in and firm up the shifts if they start getting slightly soft over the next couple of months. Mind you, when I say slightly soft, we are still talking way firmer than the factory tranny ever was.

But, I want to use the TV cable for some control over the shift quality without adding any unwanted downshift behavior. And the software is where this is hidden. It's just not obvious at all as to what software changes affect the behavior of the tranny. It's not like the computer really tells it where to shift part throttle -- it just lets the tranny do it on it's own. But, there are some limit values that can be set, and those can influence part throttle behavior. This is where I plan to play....

 

[kickinassrt-10]

I just had mine rebuilt locally here...the tranny was shot and burnt just as dusty said happens....symptoms were super hard and inconsistent shifts...weak shifts or "unresponsive" shifts....and of course the ever popular 1-2-1-2-1-2-1-2......

my guy rebuilt the entire thing..adding new gear packs, springs, more clutch packs, valve body and a rebuilt converter...he also knew about the solenoid but didn't install during the rebuild......

i drove the truck around a few weeks and although just the rebuild seemed to help a lot it still had the low RPM 1-2-1-2-1-2...so last week he had me come in to put the solenoid in (purposely put it in after to get my input since I am local and could give him updates) let me just say that after the solenoid was installed the 48RE felt totally different like a new tranny...
immediately noticed smoother shifts at low RPM and all the way through every gear...then I took it on the highway and as another member said the truck damn near chirped the tires shifting into forth at full throttle..

Simply put I have yet to have any sign of 1-2-1-2-1-2-1-2 shifts since the solenoid was installed....the tranny shifts flawlessly through all gears whether going 1500 RPM's or 5000 RPM's...shifts very very smooth but when you want to get on it, the power is at your command and shifts that quickly!

I hope my post will help since I have the 48RE and did a recent rebuild and I am giving you guys my unbiased opinion, especially considering I almost wanted to sell the 10 just because of the transmission alone! In my opinion of the trans and my experience so far is that a rebuild alone is not enough and that the GM solenoid MUST be installed for a better performing trans!