Battery Relocation - Hesitant Start (Video)

[Carlwalski]

I did the same relocation in my Mustang awhile back and had exactly the same problem you are having. I installed larger wires to the battery and the problem was solved. If I remember correctly i think I just doubled up on the same wire size instead of running a 2/0 or something like that.
If the battery was working before this happened it should still be working after unless of course it was on its last leg.Hope this helps.

Thanks mate for the input. I can't see it being the cable size myself purely for the fact others have it going with no issues. Also, why would JMB be still selling them as (surely) people would have come forward so he could have addressed the issue. I hope it's the battery. If not, I'll try the battery up the front and if no luck still, then I'll check the starter. I know it's definitely not the grounds. Between you guys and me, we'll get it sorted.

 

[ZCx]

hey Carl.

my suggestion would be to run both the pos. & neg. battery cables from the battery to the engine/batt. location.

i'm waitin on my battery to start actin up to do the relocation mod.

will be usin 1/0 welding cable from battery to the "old" location & connect it like the battery is still up front.

with my past experience with the big trucks this set up should work fine

 

[blackviper]

I'm using Justin's kit with an Odyssey PC1500 battery with no problems.


PC 1500 Specs:

1500 cranking amps for 5 seconds
1280 cranking amps for 10 seconds
1170 cranking amps for 20 seconds
1100 cranking amps for 30 seconds
Short circuit current over 5000A
Absorbent glass mat (AGM) technology
12V battery pure lead VRLA
BCI Group 34 footprint - dual purpose
BCI Group 34/78 footprint - dual purpose
Rugged construction
Can be mounted in any orientation except inverted.
Lifting handle
US DOT and IATA certified non-spillable
Shipped fully charged - just install and go!
Container and cover made from oil resistant plastic
Performance features:

PHCA: 1,500 at 80°F (27°C)
CCA: 880A at 0°F (-18°C)
CA/MCA: 1,050 at 32°F (0°C)
HCA: 1,250A at 80°F (27°C)
Reserve capacity: 135 minutes
Short circuit current: 3,100A
Deep cycling capability: 400 at 80% DOD
Design life: 12 years
Typical service life: 6 to 8 years
Operation temperature range: -40°F
(-40°C) to 176°F (80°C)

 

[ZCx]

that Odyssey battery is very impressive.:rock: :rock: :rock:

thats the one i will be goin with

 

[Carlwalski]

that Odyssey battery is very impressive.:rock: :rock: :rock:

thats the one i will be goin with

That is impressive but is "only" 80CCA more than the red top. Worth looking at though and good to know it fits in the relocation tray too!

 

[Carlwalski]

hey Carl.

my suggestion would be to run both the pos. & neg. battery cables from the battery to the engine/batt. location.

i'm waitin on my battery to start actin up to do the relocation mod.

will be usin 1/0 welding cable from battery to the "old" location & connect it like the battery is still up front.

with my past experience with the big trucks this set up should work fine

Thanks mate, I forgot to mention we ran a full negative battery right up to the front so in terms of distance, the truck wouldn't know if it were at the front or back and still the issue of inconsistent starting hesitation. I'm not sure on the size cable we used to try it but it was bigger than Justins red cable, so, fairly big lol. Thanks for the input!



Thanks again to everyone for all the help, opinions and input, much appreciated.

 

[Psycho1122]

A question from a New Member..................

Does the "Battery Relocation Kit" have a provision for the Battery Temperature Sensor?

Section 8F of the 05 SRT service manual page(s) 40 (Charging Operation) thru 43 discuss and show the funtion of the sensor.

If this is not included in the relocation kit, improper charging of the battery could occur?

Thanks Guys!

Shawn

 

[eddie102870]

the odessey is a whole different animal that the optima. we've had a bunch of red tops fail when they arent used every day. they dont like to sit and not be used. they will go bad. just my experience with them.

 

[Carlwalski]

the odessey is a whole different animal that the optima. we've had a bunch of red tops fail when they arent used every day. they dont like to sit and not be used. they will go bad. just my experience with them.

Interesting mate, good stuff. I sure hope its the case. while I don't want to go spend 700 bucks, it sure will save my hair going silver!!

 

[Carlwalski]

A question from a New Member..................

Does the "Battery Relocation Kit" have a provision for the Battery Temperature Sensor?

Section 8F of the 05 SRT service manual page(s) 40 (Charging Operation) thru 43 discuss and show the funtion of the sensor.

If this is not included in the relocation kit, improper charging of the battery could occur?

Thanks Guys!

Shawn

Hi Shawn, good point. When I asked prior to doing this relocation, consensus was all it did was sense heat and I was told to simply tie it up out the way in the front. I'm not sure how it would help charging and personally can't see it having anything to do with my issue but who knows! First thing is first I will get a brand new battery in and test it out on and off during the day, cold, warm or hot starts and minutes or hours between cranks. Basically give it arseholes and see if I can get it to start properly each and every time.

 

[Psycho1122]

I see....Ok

This might help. Page 8F-42 states:

BATTERY TEMPERATURE SENSOR
DESCRIPTION
The Battery Temperature Sensor (BTS) is attached to the battery tray located under the battery.
OPERATION
The BTS is used to determine the battery temperature and control battery charging rate. This temperature data,
along with data from monitored line voltage, is used by the PCM (ECM Diesel) to vary the battery charging rate.
System voltage will be higher at colder temperatures and is gradually reduced at warmer temperatures.
The PCM sends 5 volts to the sensor and is grounded through the sensor return line. As temperature increases,
resistance in the sensor decreases and the detection voltage at the PCM increases.
The BTS is also used for OBD II diagnostics. Certain faults and OBD II monitors are either enabled or disabled,
depending upon BTS input (for example, disable purge and enable.

Cheers!

Shawn

 

[ZCx]

That is impressive but is "only" 80CCA more than the red top. Worth looking at though and good to know it fits in the relocation tray too!

the 1500 fits the relocation tray, like Justin & Blackviper says.

if ya go with the Odyessy replacement battery for the truck is a bit longer & the tray will have to be "updated" to fit

 

[scoobert]

Hi guys,


I'm coming to the end of the line and am pretty much stuck, I like to sort this shit out myself but when I can't, I post it here. I have a relocation kit (JMB) as do others. I had my auto sparky install it, seemed simple, in fast Bob's your Uncle. When I did the engine bay, my Red Top 34/78 Optima (800CCA) was taken out. When it was time to install it we tested it, 12.1V, no worries. We put it in and the truck started instantly. I then took it for a 15 minute drive, stopped the truck and then tried to start it again 10 minutes later - fail lol. I needed to jump it. I got it home and left it. The next morning I tried it and it started, just with some hesitation. From then on in, it starts but has always hesitated. I get the occasional "normal" start with no "slight pause" but this only seems to be when it's a cold start (no driving for 12+ hours). After driving or start ups it starts to hesitate like in the video. I know doing searches, other relocaiton guys said they had "slight hesitation", I'm not sure if it's like mine or not as bad, or worse??

I have had 2 auto sparky's check it, the battery dips down to 9.5/10V at both the front of the engine bay (fuse terminal/ground) and at the back. So it's not dropping between. The starter seems AOK and fine. The alternator is working perfectly, once started it's keep it at a constant 13.9/14V so it's charging 100%. The rear and front both read the same off crank (12.80-13V). All the grounds are 100% metal to metal and I cleaned the terminals with the special battery wire cleaner tools for faultess connection. I've had the battery tested at 2 shops. I have no idea what to do. I'm no mechanic but I've been told that hesitant starts like that over time will start to strain the poor starter and could possibly kill it, not sure how true this is but it don't sound too pretty. I'm actually considering putting the battery back at the front lol. Function beats looks every time in my books and if it means a battery in the front for instant smooth starts, so be it. Anyone have ideas? Guys with their batteries, do you hesitate like mine when cranking over? Do you see any drops in volts from front to back? I'm not blaming JMB for his kit, the kit should have nothing to do with it, it's a basic kit, thick cable, tray etc. I'm bloody stuck lol. I'm going to leave it on jack stands until I sort this out. Main question is, what would cause it to be so inconsistent? 70% starts are hesitant, 30% normal(ish) and it's hard to say when it chooses to do either.



Cheers,
Carl

i have not read all 6 pages, however...
has anyone thought of an under truck battery? putting it just behind the frame rail would be ok. and there are battery's that can be sat on their side also. it would be closer to the front, and less possible issues. only real issue would be changing it.

 

[JMB Justin]

Since you sorted out the grounds, I would have to guess battery. On my personal truck I had the lead at the starter come loose and do a similar thing (erratic operation), and the ground is obviously critical. It never hurts to put a big fat aftermarket ground from frame to engine as well.

I personally think optimas are junk, ive had no luck with them on my personal vehicles, ive since switched to Odyssey and have had much better luck.

Ive used the relocate kit for 50K miles now with no issues other than the loose starter connection stated above. Many OEM applications are mounting the batteries in the back now, so cable length is not an issue if done with the proper size cable.

Justin

 

[505'sFastestViper.]

no issues with mine in the back??????

 

[JTS VENOM PERFORMANCE]

Thanks mate, I forgot to mention we ran a full negative battery right up to the front so in terms of distance, the truck wouldn't know if it were at the front or back and still the issue of inconsistent starting hesitation. I'm not sure on the size cable we used to try it but it was bigger than Justins red cable, so, fairly big lol. Thanks for the input!



Thanks again to everyone for all the help, opinions and input, much appreciated.

carl this may be your problem , dotn run the neg cable all the way to the front, just a short cable from the battery to the frame, not way back up to the front:argh:

 

[SANCHOBA]

mine has that slight split second hesitation too,and i have a red top in the stock location:dontknow:

 

[kennygene]

I just have a normal stock battery in my SRT 10 and have had no issues. My battery is in the stock location.

I have a 429 in my Ford with 10.75:1 compression starting with a 550cca NAPA battery no problems even at 15 degrees F.

Your battery should read above 13v if it is good, charged, and operating correctly.

If the battery is good (above 13v) and starter is good then your positive/negative cable is too small. You can only read voltage drop correctly when the starter is engaged. Have someone crank the truck while you check voltage at the battery and then do the same and check the voltage up front.

Do any connections get hot when you crank the truck?

 

[DevilDawg3097]

it can only be 1 of 3 things.

Defective battery, needs to be load tested.. The fact that it drops to 10v tells me its no good if there are no volt drops anywhere else.

Dont believe the hype with drycell batterys. They dont have anywhere near the life of reg batterys under normal conditions, Ive seen many dry cell batteries fail and drop cells.


Another thing that alot of people over look is grounds... On my other cars with the battery in the back I like to weld to a bolt to the frame and connect the cable to that stud. NOT drill a hole and then tighten with a bolt but WELDED.
I also like to use 0-1 guage cable. For negative.

I also recommend welding a bolt to the frame and running a ground cable from the engine to that bolt..

this is the sure fire way of not having battery issues.



Now, another Item that you should adress is heat soak... I know your running long tube headers, Is your starter protected from the extra heat?

I was just about to say that.Volts dont mean crap if the cranking amps are gone. Load test the battery if the amps are 10-15% lower your gonna start to have problems. Dry cells are only good for track. Put an interstate battery in it. 100 bucks from sears. Ill ship it to you. But load test it first and not with a pop tart tester either.

 

[VIPR PWR]

Reconnect the battery back to the front and test to see if your hesitation is still there.....If the battery is bad would it not continue to give the hesitation at any location ???