full exhaust and 93oct tune results

You might be running lean and the computer is still pulling timing, ususally headers will lean you out and your tune has to adjust for that to get all the power out of your headers etc. Of course I'm just guessing here, but you really should feel a big noticeable difference in your truck with those mods. My truck was bone stock and then I added the Belanger long tubes, Belanger catless mids, Mopar/Borla, and SCT by Roe all at the same time and there's a big difference in power and my 1/4mile times.

I hope you can get it figured out soon bro. I would have Torrie make you a midlevel tune according to the highest pump gas you can get ahold of to run on regularly, then make the high level either for race gas or something you can get to with a couple bottles of Lucas octane booster and Heet.
 
I posted this on the other site for you. Also, I do echo others statements posted here re; your findings......

Everything you stated in your first post shows me that your upgrade to headers and HF cats did not give you much gain over your initial exhaust mods (10-15 maybe). The stock manifolds flow very well. Some will say maybe 5-10 H.P. going with headers. I would be willing to suggest that the torque curve under peak will be where you see the most gains IF you have the correct A/F thru that range and the airflow/spark to match it. I would put on the Demon coils from JTSVP and a wideband. Then monitor your A/F thru the RPM range. Give the info to Torrie and have him work with you to get it into the safe "sweet spot". I will also suggest that the addition of your Volant CAI was not a gain. The sound the system makes may be a placebo effect. It could be offsetting other obtained gains in your system. I would put the stock CAI back on with the K&N drop in, then tune it (by your description of smell, I would say it is rich). It's all about the "combination" of your "air-pump"....... fuel, spark and airflow.
 
Absolutely! I think these trucks respond MORE to air temps than they do modifications. I feel like I have been given an extra 50 hp when we go from extreme summer (90+ degrees), to the middle of fall (60 degrees), and then when it gets around 40--goodbye tires.:rock:



I agree with that 100%.... crap my track times show it! I get to the track around 5 and wont make my first pass until 8 once the temps have cooled down..... oncetemps cool.down you run faster..... jjst get to the track....I wouldn't even worry about dyno #'s unless you did a baseline and after mod dyno run on the same dyno and operator
 
I agree with that 100%.... crap my track times show it! I get to the track around 5 and wont make my first pass until 8 once the temps have cooled down..... oncetemps cool.down you run faster..... jjst get to the track....I wouldn't even worry about dyno #'s unless you did a baseline and after mod dyno run on the same dyno and operator

LOL, Tony gives me a hard time because I do the same thing at the track. If it's too hot, I'm not running.
 
I have a very similar set up as yours and Dans and I love it and I did feel quite an improvement especially the way it pulled in second and third....I would just sell the truck and buy a nice lil Geo Metro and be done with it
 
I have a very similar set up as yours and Dans and I love it and I did feel quite an improvement especially the way it pulled in second and third....I would just sell the truck and buy a nice lil Geo Metro and be done with it

well im bettin i would notice a big difference in a $2200 mod on a geo metro, only problem with that is...........IM NOT GAY!!! and i dnt care what dan says.lmao.

ok back to it. see ur not the only one that agrees i should feel a noticable difference with those mods. i think im missin somethin. Psycho, ronnie, troy, Viper powa, and venomous have some very good suggestions that i am guna go with. we will see if i cant get this thing figured out.

but lets not stop here, keep this thread and the useful info rollin:burnout:
 
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Dude at idle Rollin you should blow tires off, second gear at 30-40mph......blow the tires off!! Third chirp and hook.
This is my experience in a barely modded QC.

this is what i thought too. makes me feel better now since i know i am not hoping for the impossible and i am spot on with my expectations of my mods, thanks

Absolutely! I think these trucks respond MORE to air temps than they do modifications. I feel like I have been given an extra 50 hp when we go from extreme summer (90+ degrees), to the middle of fall (60 degrees), and then when it gets around 40--goodbye tires.:rock:

i agree, and the same, i notice a difference. i drive my truck when its cold. but once the salt gets laid down it gets put up.

however, i had this truck last summer, 100+ deg, and it is barely faster now than what it was last summer bone stock

You might be running lean and the computer is still pulling timing, ususally headers will lean you out and your tune has to adjust for that to get all the power out of your headers etc. Of course I'm just guessing here, but you really should feel a big noticeable difference in your truck with those mods. My truck was bone stock and then I added the Belanger long tubes, Belanger catless mids, Mopar/Borla, and SCT by Roe all at the same time and there's a big difference in power and my 1/4mile times.

I hope you can get it figured out soon bro. I would have Torrie make you a midlevel tune according to the highest pump gas you can get ahold of to run on regularly, then make the high level either for race gas or something you can get to with a couple bottles of Lucas octane booster and Heet.

very good suggestions aswell. ur the second one to suggest the A/F. im guna put a guage in. and again it is nice to know im not the only one that thinks my truck should be performing better with these mods.

I posted this on the other site for you. Also, I do echo others statements posted here re; your findings......

Everything you stated in your first post shows me that your upgrade to headers and HF cats did not give you much gain over your initial exhaust mods (10-15 maybe). The stock manifolds flow very well. Some will say maybe 5-10 H.P. going with headers. I would be willing to suggest that the torque curve under peak will be where you see the most gains IF you have the correct A/F thru that range and the airflow/spark to match it. I would put on the Demon coils from JTSVP and a wideband. Then monitor your A/F thru the RPM range. Give the info to Torrie and have him work with you to get it into the safe "sweet spot". I will also suggest that the addition of your Volant CAI was not a gain. The sound the system makes may be a placebo effect. It could be offsetting other obtained gains in your system. I would put the stock CAI back on with the K&N drop in, then tune it (by your description of smell, I would say it is rich). It's all about the "combination" of your "air-pump"....... fuel, spark and airflow.

DING_DING_DING. Now thats what im talkin bout. a detailed suggestion with enough explination for my dumbass simpleton mind to understand.
OK. everything u said i get. one question though. And i know this question is coming at the risk of getting my ass seriously chewed. but, my CAI hooks to th scoop, the box also has openings in thr front behind the radiator, and also a hole where the stock box picks up air. how could it be any worse than the stock setup. this has quandereed me endlessly. i know the hood scoop will NEVER, evn at speeds, have a ram air effect, BUT, at speeds it is most deffinatly making the coldest possible ambient air available to the intake system, correct? or at the very least at par with the stock setup? no?

Now i deffinatly do NOT want to change the direction of what has now become a very helpful thead to me in he direction of "well my CAI" or "tests have proven that this CAI". And i am MOST deffinatly not questioning you psycho. i just want to make sue if i am guna take off my CAI it is for just cause. and that all makes sence. whenever it stops raining i am guna put the stock tune back in, touch the cables to reset my PCM, drive it a little and see what happens. then after i get my tuneup/coil packs/A/F guage...i will put the tweeked tune from torrie back in.

But lets not stop here. This thread is becoming very helpful. keep the ideas coming


respomded there to but i will post it here also just incase someone helpful is not on VOTW.
 
Geo;

I do not see a reason to be chewed for a question. You should be commended for asking the questions and having an open mind. :rock:

If you evaluate the Volant CAI, it primarily draws from the scoop in the hood. Problem is, it is a low pressure area. Take some painters tape and start at the front edge of the hood and go strait to the top of the cab. The scoop is "Under" that line. Which means you get a draw (hot engine air exit point). Compare that to the stock set up with cool air being fed into the right front fender cavity. This is amplified by the high pressure/volume point created by the "scoop" molded into the grill block off (those help with high speed too). Your stock airbox picks up that cool charge from the inside fender area. With the materials used by the OEM, very little temperature rise will occur on the short trip to the TB. Plus, if the Volant draws from two points, I could reasonably see how the "draw" at the hood could compromise the feed at the fender. On top of that, you loose the valuable hot air exit point for your engine compartment! Additionally, we can not even begin to determine the engineering that went into the diameter, resonate frequency, length and volume of the stock CAI. Sometimes the "KISS" method nets the best results.

Good Luck and CHEERS!:D
 
If that's the case why does the mopar performance kit have a scoop that hooks to the hood and directs the air to the filter at the fender area?
 
This is a very good post! After reading I don't think I need to spend the money on headers to go faster. I think for me I will just remove the mid cats & just do a cat-back exhaust. :)
 
This is a very good post! After reading I don't think I need to spend the money on headers to go faster. I think for me I will just remove the mid cats & just do a cat-back exhaust. :)

Tell me about it. I just hope the tune can fix it. If not am taking them out .....
 
This is a very good post! After reading I don't think I need to spend the money on headers to go faster. I think for me I will just remove the mid cats & just do a cat-back exhaust. :)

Tell me about it. I just hope the tune can fix it. If not am taking them out .....


hold offguys, remember that the majority of the guys here think somethin is arye, and i shouldbefeelin more power. i would waait till i get this figured out for sure before you use me as an example of what/whay not to do. i still think somethin got lost in translation between my sct problems and there is more power to squeeze out of thesd mods,...but that is JMHO:dontknow:
 
If you evaluate the Volant CAI, it primarily draws from the scoop in the hood. Problem is, it is a low pressure area. Take some painters tape and start at the front edge of the hood and go strait to the top of the cab. The scoop is "Under" that line. Which means you get a draw (hot engine air exit point).

Good Luck and CHEERS!:D


do you mean go straight to the op of the cab or follow the hood to the bottom of the windshield and then to the top of the cab?, sorry if it seems dumb but i dont know the aerodynamics of these trucks. cus it would seem for the hood scoop to be uder the line u would have to go straight to the top of the cab from the front of the hood. if you followed the hood, the scoop should get a direct "hit", so to speak of air, and after say 20-30 mph that air woul not be "rammed in" but would be the coolest air possible for the scoop to suck in, making it a "cold air" CAI.

again, these are just questions and observations, i have no proof, video, dyno #'s, air tunnel/wind ribbon test results of any kind:(

as ralph said though, i think this thread is becoming helpful to ot just me, but others aswell. hope we can keep the goo info going and over time get more and more people who have headers and similar mods to post up with some of their findings and results.

thanks everyone, keep the info coming
 
aero42.jpg


This is a car, but the point conveys. A Trucks aerodynamics are, as we all know, much worse. The reatachment point is near the edge of the windshield.

More info........

Vents and ducts serve many purposes on cars. They are used to direct air for cooling and ventilation. However, they can also be used to reduce lift and create downforce by relieving unwanted pressure differentials. Pressure differentials can occur anywhere that a fluid flow is allowed to enter an area that is difficult to exit. If this pressure differential contributes to lift, or reduces downforce, it is obviously unwanted.

One area where a large pressure differential can develop is the engine bay. The pressure differential is created in two ways. Firstly, as the air flows into the engine bay it strikes the engine, accessories, and firewall, stagnating and raising the pressure in the engine bay. The air flowing over the hood is moving quickly and is at a lower pressure, creating a pressure differential. Because the pressure below the hood is higher than above it, lift is created.

The effect is amplified by the fact that the air entering the engine bay is heated by the radiator and the engine itself. Buoyant forces (the same forces that cause a hot air baloon to rise) are created because the hot air has a lower density than the cool air above the hood. This effectively turns the hood into a hot air baloon, compounding the problem. The problem is again made worse because the engine bay is sealed on the sides and top. This allows the air only one escape path - down. The air is forced to flow down and beneath the car, increasing drag and reducing downforce. Obviously these conditions are detrimental to a car's performance.

However, simply placing a vent in the hood can help reduce the pressure differential in the engine bay, reducing the effect of these phenomena. This solution can be seen on many race cars including JGTC and DTM cars and also on very high performance road cars like the Ferrari F50, Jaguar XJ220, and Lotus Elise.

It is important to note that if the vent is placed too far back on the hood, then it may cross into the stagnation zone at the base of the windshield. If the vent is open to this high pressure area, it may actually force air into the engine bay, compounding the problem that it was installed to relieve.

However, placing the duct in this high pressure area can be used as an advantage. On older muscle cars, "induction cowls" were used to tap into this high pressure area and provide more air to the engine, making more power. For this to be most effective, the cowl should be sealed so that the air is forced into the engine and none is allowed to collect under the hood.

Our trucks cold air feed is placed in a high pressure area represented by red on this NASCAR body (Low pressure in blue)......

NASCARintunnel_000.jpg


Remember, the Dodge NASCAR Truck team worked with the PVO team on our trucks.

Here is a link from Chrysler re; aerodynamics.......(See below the VERY interesting oil article!!)

Chrysler Corporation LLC: 7/29/07 - 8/5/07

Another from Truckin' Magazine..............

Understanding Truck And SUV Aerodynamics - Truckin' Magazine

Hope this helps!!
 
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Psycho1122 said:
I would have to ask if it was designed by the PVO team?!?

I doubt if they would choke off thier beast.

I am not sure if the mopar cold air was designed by the PVO team? Does anyone know... Just doesn't make sense to me they would sell a performance product that doesn't help and in fact may hurt?
 
& our trucks was suppose to have had some wind tunnel tunin also

:rock::rock::rock:
 
well someone could do som tests, like taking of the scoop attatchment vs. leaving t on. the Volant box i believe is the same as the stock box minus the scoop. u could just take the scoop attachment off tat blocks the duct opening.

only thin is the gain/loss would proly be so minimal that u culd chalk it up to any tin little change that has occured between runs. ie. temp, humidity, heat soak, tires, pressures, etc.



psyco has done a FANTASTIC job on walkin my through this and giving me the pertinent info i ased and required.

But lets get back to headers and sct's before this thread gets too far off track. i thinkwe have gone as far as we can with the CAI portion and its reguards to my setup.

thanks again guys
 

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