Mopar Gen IV hybrid install... underway

i stay at san antonio, about 45 mins from the ART place. not to sound negative or anything but those guys wanted way to much money to rebuild my tranny, like 6-7kish, just for the basic suncoast internals. not even including labor lol...but i hear that they are pretty much the experts on our engines in texas
 
No additional pics... they have taken plenty, but haven't uploaded them and sent them to me yet.

Yeah, its a little late in the game to change shops. Like you said... ART has one of the best reputations in this region for working on these motors. I'm not worried about paying for it. In fact, they are cheaper on the labor on this install than several other shops I inquired to. But I want it done once, and done right... and I'm confident they will deliver.
 
UPDATE... long-winded

Yes, I have an update... no excuses. I will give the hard facts here at the top of the post, and my sentiments below (b/c I know some of you don't care about that, so I won't unnecessarily bore you with that).

There have been some minor delays, such as the exhaust not bolting up to the Billy Boat cat-back. ART handled that with ease, and I have pics of how they modified things to make it work... spotless looking welds and excellent craftsmanship.

Fired up truck with the Mopar ECM and it threw some codes + had Airbag light on + no fuel gauge function. The verdict is that this is due to the ECM being flashed for a Viper car. I can hammer on about the fact they knew it was for a truck, but I won't. Mopar are sending ART a new ECM, supposedly for the truck, so I applaud them for getting on it. Truck ran fine, and drove fine, according to ART, but obviously we don't want it throwing codes.

In the meantime, ART used my other ECM to tune it. The results are far from flattering, and yes... they have tuned so many hot-rod/race Vipers, they know how to get it done. I think all of you guys need to send me $1 for being the guinea pig

512rwhp/495rwtq... that's it. Definitely a FAR, FAR cry from the 150hp (flywheel) advertised gain. More like 90hp flywheel. A/F ratio is a flat 13.0:1 at WOT, so the tune is spot on.

Maybe, must maybe, Mopar has something up their sleeve with their program...we'll see.

OK... now for the sentimental stuff.

1) Please do not kick a good man while he is recovering. :) I can take a joke with the best of them, but if you want to insult me or ART... you need to take that to another thread.
2) I will get over it. I just turned 44... crying over things never help. As long as I've been hot-rodding vehicles (mostly with my own hands), I might have done that at one time, but not any longer.
3) I have not driven the truck, but ART says it runs extremely well as far as street manners, which is extremely important to me.
4) While I do not have experience with these engines, I have 20 yrs of hands-on experience with Ford and Chevy V8s. Seems to me that if you improve airflow on the inlet and exhaust side of the equation, you need a hotter bumpstick. The _primary_ reasons I didn't do this were: a) the claimed 150hp would be more than satisfactory to me, and b) I live in an emission-nazi county. I'm going to guess that there is easily 30hp with a new cam, but I don't want a high-rpm screamer, and I do not want to worry about throwing codes.
5) I didn't have to buy an upgraded fuel pump. LOL
6) I now hold the record for most $$ per HP improvement spent on this board. :eek:

I felt like this was a well-thought-out kit, and in light of the fact we cannot get Striker heads... it seemed to be a good N/A way to go, but there is no reason to make excuses.

I will report back when I get the truck home and can spend some time behind the wheel. We are going to wait a little for Mopar to send their tune, but I plan to get the truck next week at some point.

If you made it this far, thanks for reading! You can send your $1 to me anytime. :D
 
512/495?? ya know why the torque is lower the the horsepower??? seems like all the dyno numbers for the trucks TQ is usually higher than HP.

maybe since they know its for a truck this time there are way different maps in it??

but thanks for takin the leap & keepin us informed on the project.

not puttin down nobody, no way no how, but ya think Torrie might have some input on your set up????
 
ZCx said:
512/495?? ya know why the torque is lower the the horsepower??? seems like all the dyno numbers for the trucks TQ is usually higher than HP.

maybe since they know its for a truck this time there are way different maps in it??

but thanks for takin the leap & keepin us informed on the project.

not puttin down nobody, no way no how, but ya think Torrie might have some input on your set up????
Click to expand...

I'm thinking the HP went up, but TQ stayed the same b/c that is a function of airflow velocity. More rpms, and the HP rose... I have not seen the graph, but I am making an educated guess that the HP gains were in the upper rpms. TQ didn't continue to rise over the stock curve, but it doesn't fall off as much in the upper revs... which is where the HP gain occured.

The tune as it is now, is from the truck ECM, not the Viper ECM.

Torrie is a good tuner, and David Weaver is a proven tuner as well.

Final verdict will be in when the Mopar tune comes back. The kit claims 150hp flywheel... that isn't Torrie or ART tuned, either. Let's make sure we keep that in perspective.
 
Man that's a bummer about the numbers, it is strange that the tq is lower than the hp seeing as you didn't do a cam swap. Did art have any ideas as to what could be the cause?
 
ARRESTmeRed04 said:
Man that's a bummer about the numbers, it is strange that the tq is lower than the hp seeing as you didn't do a cam swap. Did art have any ideas as to what could be the cause?
Click to expand...

Same question to Mopar ...
 
Again, I haven't seen the graph myself, but I was told the TQ curve shifted up a bit (which makes sense to me...even though there was no cam swap). That can be a function of head/intake/exhaust flow, even with the same cam.

HP rose b/c the peak TQ is at a higher rpm. Obviously, it may have a little less TQ down low, which with 4.56s and the fact I can spin the tires easily in 1st or 2nd... probably isn't a big deal for _my style of driving_.

Final verdict will be when Mopar sends the proper calibration back.
 
Sorry to hear that, sounds like something is not correct for sure, theres no reason those heads shouldnt make a bigger difference than that. The lame stock cam is definitely holding you back at least 40whp, dont be afraid to change it out and still keep excellent drivability if you chose to do so (we just did a custom blower cam that made more whp/wtq NA almost everywhere compared to a much larger "NA" cam and still picked up 6" of vacuum at idle, actually has more than stock!). Unless ART isnt able to get past something in the stock PCM, I dont see much if any more power coming from the Mopar unfortunately, but I will be watching close. Dont sweat the #'s too much, all that matters is that you enjoy it.
Justin
 
Justin,

Thanks for the encouragement and the perspective.

"Unless ART isnt able to get past something in the stock PCM, I dont see much if any more power coming from the Mopar unfortunately"

I agree.
 
I would take them off and shove them up Mopar's ass for false advertising. You should be able to trust what they claim.

I thought the Strikers were available again?

Posted Feb 17th on VOTW:

"Now taking orders on Striker Street, Striker-Rs and Custom Grind Billet Cams..

Ronnie"
 
yellowfever#154 said:
I would take them off and shove them up Mopar's ass for false advertising. You should be able to trust what they claim.

I thought the Strikers were available again?

Posted Feb 17th on VOTW:

"Now taking orders on Striker Street, Striker-Rs and Custom Grind Billet Cams..

Ronnie"
Click to expand...

Since that was about 6 weeks after I bought the Gen IV heads, it doesn't help me much. :)
 
I have followed this since the announcement of the kit months ago. I have nothing but respect for how you've come across with the truth. I think there are some bugs that need worked out. I am not gonna jump on the BS band wagon! I've worked on aircraft for a decade, it can always be the smallest of things that create giant problems. We all know ART knows their $hit, Mopar might need to pony up and help out where they can. It's not in Mopar's best interest to have this kit fall short on one our trucks. Word spreads quick in our small community!

WA 2 FST said:
Yes, I have an update... no excuses. I will give the hard facts here at the top of the post, and my sentiments below (b/c I know some of you don't care about that, so I won't unnecessarily bore you with that).

There have been some minor delays, such as the exhaust not bolting up to the Billy Boat cat-back. ART handled that with ease, and I have pics of how they modified things to make it work... spotless looking welds and excellent craftsmanship.

Fired up truck with the Mopar ECM and it threw some codes + had Airbag light on + no fuel gauge function. The verdict is that this is due to the ECM being flashed for a Viper car. I can hammer on about the fact they knew it was for a truck, but I won't. Mopar are sending ART a new ECM, supposedly for the truck, so I applaud them for getting on it. Truck ran fine, and drove fine, according to ART, but obviously we don't want it throwing codes.

In the meantime, ART used my other ECM to tune it. The results are far from flattering, and yes... they have tuned so many hot-rod/race Vipers, they know how to get it done. I think all of you guys need to send me $1 for being the guinea pig

512rwhp/495rwtq... that's it. Definitely a FAR, FAR cry from the 150hp (flywheel) advertised gain. More like 90hp flywheel. A/F ratio is a flat 13.0:1 at WOT, so the tune is spot on.

Maybe, must maybe, Mopar has something up their sleeve with their program...we'll see.

OK... now for the sentimental stuff.

1) Please do not kick a good man while he is recovering. :) I can take a joke with the best of them, but if you want to insult me or ART... you need to take that to another thread.
2) I will get over it. I just turned 44... crying over things never help. As long as I've been hot-rodding vehicles (mostly with my own hands), I might have done that at one time, but not any longer.
3) I have not driven the truck, but ART says it runs extremely well as far as street manners, which is extremely important to me.
4) While I do not have experience with these engines, I have 20 yrs of hands-on experience with Ford and Chevy V8s. Seems to me that if you improve airflow on the inlet and exhaust side of the equation, you need a hotter bumpstick. The _primary_ reasons I didn't do this were: a) the claimed 150hp would be more than satisfactory to me, and b) I live in an emission-nazi county. I'm going to guess that there is easily 30hp with a new cam, but I don't want a high-rpm screamer, and I do not want to worry about throwing codes.
5) I didn't have to buy an upgraded fuel pump. LOL
6) I now hold the record for most $$ per HP improvement spent on this board. :eek:

I felt like this was a well-thought-out kit, and in light of the fact we cannot get Striker heads... it seemed to be a good N/A way to go, but there is no reason to make excuses.

I will report back when I get the truck home and can spend some time behind the wheel. We are going to wait a little for Mopar to send their tune, but I plan to get the truck next week at some point.

If you made it this far, thanks for reading! You can send your $1 to me anytime. :D
Click to expand...
 
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