BAD Build...Opinions, Please

[JTS VENOM PERFORMANCE]

Do you remember the #'s from the compression teat I did at the race? I'm thinking all around 157 ave. I call Rusell tomorrow to see if he can bring me the gauges to do another comp/leak down test.

I was thinking they were around 160psi, but dang bruddha that was longer than yesterdy
I will see if i can find the oem piston specs in the morn, right now I got toothpicks in the eyes, gonna give the ol pilllow some head for now,

I know the rings were fill fitted, I jsut wonder if they were gapped too much?

 

[WOLFRAM]

I was thinking they were around 160psi, but dang bruddha that was longer than yesterdy
I will see if i can find the oem piston specs in the morn, right now I got toothpicks in the eyes, gonna give the ol pilllow some head for now,

I know the rings were fill fitted, I jsut wonder if they were gapped too much?

:top:


Blessed:willy:
:goodnight:

 

[FerrariTruck]

Alright so before things go further i think this is what needs to be done;


1) hook up a vacuum guage and note the reading and actions of the reading at idle.

2) Perform a complete cylinder leakdown test ( a compression can also be done in conjunction but imo not neccessary)

3) Inspect the spark plugs to see how they are

4) get an oil analysis done to see what metals are present possibly indicating premature failure

5) Now as far as the vibration issue, well there needs to be some checks done...

A thorough check of the dowels on engine the guide the trans in place, maybe they were left out. If the trans and engine are not completely aligned this can cause an issue.

Should also check the all the bolts that secure the trans to the engine are properly torqued and tight.

Checked that the trans mount is all tight.

Maybe at this point since you are hitting 145 plus it would be a good idea to send the driveshaft out to get a high speed balance check and adjustment if needed.

last but not least swap in a different set of wheels( as you already done)



6) Pirateman needs to come in here onbehalf of his fellow vipertruck community and his work and verify some things


Why have you stopped communication with both parties? wolf and jtsvp

Why did you not provide build specs?

There should not be guesses at comp ratios. There are simple equations to get all the info. all this stuff should have been and needs to be disclosed. From the CC's of the combustion chamber since the heads were decked to piston to valve clearance...All of it

Why on earth did you "ok" a motor after it being dropped?! I mean hell i would at least thrown in another thrust bearing, crank, and balancer since it would have been on the shippers bill.

What motor oil did you suggest the motor be broken in with and also what additive if any did you suggest?


BTW pirate, eldelbrock carbs do suck, they are garbage



Tony, please dont lose sleep over this... If anything give me a call tomarrow bud

 

[SrtBrad]

Ok, now what exactly is the failure? so far the engine has not failed, the problem is a vibration.Darrin can crank and drive the truck as it sits now, jsut not above 150mph according to what he told me, anything above 155mph an the vibration got scary.

now if the vibration is comming from the engine it should get progressivly worse with rpms, so in any gear it should vibrate, or at least at a certain rpm in any gear, and most likley come apart, so far the engine has not failed, the vibration could be comming from the clutch, flywheel, driveshaft, tranny, bent axle, axle tubes, any number of things,

more things actually need to be checked before a complete teardown takes place.

I agree that a teardown is not nec right now till further tests are done. My opinion says that there is something seriously wrong for that engine to burn or loose so much oil. My whole point is to have someone to step up to the plate for Darrin that is qualified and is a neutral party to help this situation if worse comes to worse.

Furthermore Darrin was told 10.5 to 1 compression. You were told something different. The dyno numbers resemble a stock engine from what I understand. There are a lot of unanswered questions that could only really be answered with a complete teardown if no communication is offered from the other side.

 

[Prof]

...There are a lot of unanswered questions that could only really be answered with a complete teardown if no communication is offered from the other side.

This is my point. If the vibration issue is solved...there are still a lot of issues that will not have been addressed...hence my recommendation to tear it down, and reassemble, by an expert. Then the questions will be resolved...if nothing is wrong great! If something is astray, then it can be corrected prior to a possibly catastrophic failure. Some cost, but I would sleep much better and enjoy the truck much more if it were certified OK by someone with strong credentials.

 

[eddie102870]

This is my point. If the vibration issue is solved...there are still a lot of issues that will not have been addressed...hence my recommendation to tear it down, and reassemble, by an expert. Then the questions will be resolved...if nothing is wrong great! If something is astray, then it can be corrected prior to a possibly catastrophic failure. Some cost, but I would sleep much better and enjoy the truck much more if it were certified OK by someone with strong credentials.

i agree with roy. if it were mine and was dropped. it should have been torn down. no telling what the force of dropping it did to the mains, the end of the crank, dampner. i personally wouldnt trust it. that being said going back to the beginning. something doesnt sound right with a block with 3800 miles on it not being any good. but he took it on trade? hum, makes me think the block may have been in better shape than the one he used for this build. wouldnt put it past him. wolf ram i know i couldnt afford to go in a motor twice this quick after just spending the money you have on it, but a motor burning that much oil between tanks of gas has something wrong internally. a spec sheet should come from the builder. hopefully pirateman will step forward and make this right. take note guys when you do a build use someone who knows what they are doing. these arent small block chevy motors. you may have to take a weekend and make a road trip knock on his door and demand some answers. i would thats bs him not taking calls. shows his character.

 

[DevilDawg3097]

I havent read all the threads, but to me the crank is no good. If my crank was out of balance with a fews nicks from the pulley coming off. I would have to say undoubtedly that the crank is not even true. Bet Tonys left nut the snout is out of round. Will chime in more after work and I read more.JMO

I built my motor myself and with the nature of the v10 (this particular V10) is all about that fuggin crank be perfect thats why I didnt attempt a bottom half build and stayin at right around 8oohp . Again they aint V8's :argh: :marchmellow:

 

[LoveThisTruck]

I was burning about the same amount of oil after my build... rings didn't seat right. Diesel oil took care of that with the quickness.

 

[FATJACK]

Ferrari Truck mentioned the dowels that center the trans to the block. I think I would check those for sure, it is normal for a machine shop to remove these and there is a possibility they were not put back in on reassembly. That could certainly give you a vibration at high rpms.

 

[Prof]

...with the nature of the v10 (this particular V10) is all about that fuggin crank be perfect thats why I didnt attempt a bottom half build and stayin at right around 8oohp . Again they aint V8's :argh: :marchmellow:

Matt has a great point...it is all about the crank...my builder will not build a v10 on an engine stand because of the torque that could be induced due to the length of the crank and block...just a minor amount of torque can cause horrible results...he builds Vipers on a table top...

If the crank is not perfect the engine never will be.

 

[VENOMOUS1 RACING]

I agree with most to do a leakdown and compression test,vacuum test, and for sure a UOA ( used oil analysis) and see what metals are in the oil to see whats failing. Someone with a nice borescope would be nice while doing the leakdown test and compression test. See what the plugs. piston crowns, etc. look like. They should tell you the story before you open the engine up. I am willing to bet the crank snout is bent for sure and it takes little to get engine vibration especially at higher RPMs. Start the engine and physically look at the rotation of the crank and balancer to see if you see anything as well.

Finally load the shotty with 000 buck and make a road trip there. I actually still have my own road trip to make to see a member that shafted me. I still think we need to initiate the iTRADER system that let's members give ffedback on experiences with Vendors and other members. If theres a problem with someone and you still choose to buy at least you were warned.

 

[Begood]

I more I read about many engine builds on here, the more I am happy I stayed stock. I just don't make enough money to get into something like this.

Wolfram I wish all the best, and I hope you get this taken care of quickly.


Bill.

 

[WOLFRAM]

Good Morning, all.:vollkommenauf: Man that big light is bright.:coffee:

A thorough check of the dowels on engine the guide the trans in place, maybe they were left out. If the trans and engine are not completely aligned this can cause an issue.

The dowels are there along with a new pilot bearing.

Maybe at this point since you are hitting 145 plus it would be a good idea to send the driveshaft out to get a high speed balance check and adjustment if needed.

Done, It checks out OK.

What motor oil did you suggest the motor be broken in with and also what additive if any did you suggest?

None was suggested. I have only used Royal Purple, Break in oil for 700 miles.
Then switched to XPR10-40 raceing oil. Now using 10-30, I don't have to order it. There has been no change in the consumption with either grade.

3) Inspect the spark plugs to see how they are see how they are

When I changed the plugs out (at about 1000 miles) there was oil, heavy on #9.

Should also check the all the bolts that secure the trans to the engine are properly torqued and tight.

Checked that the trans mount is all tight.

Will be checking them again along with the plugs. I'm trying to locate a leak down gauge & UOA lab now.

1) hook up a vacuum guage and note the reading and actions of the reading at idle.

Details please, hook up where & what am I looking for?

 

[VENOMOUS1 RACING]

Good Morning, all.:vollkommenauf: Man that big light is bright.:coffee:




The dowels are there along with a new pilot bearing.



Done, It checks out OK.



None was suggested. I have only used Royal Purple, Break in oil for 700 miles.
Then switched to XPR10-40 raceing oil. Now using 10-30, I don't have to order it. There has been no change in the consumption with either grade.



When I changed the plugs out (at about 1000 miles) there was oil, heavy on #9.



Will be checking them again along with the plugs. I'm trying to locate a leak down gauge & UOA lab now.



Details please, hook up where & what am I looking for?

You will be looking for any fluttering on the guage as well as the actual vacuum on the guage to see how well the engine is producing vacuum. The cam's overlap may drop vacuum though so comparing factory vacuum and a cammed engines vacuum will show different. Main thing is spikes and fluttering indicating sticking valves,lifers etc.

 

[WOLFRAM]

You will be looking for any fluttering on the guage as well as the actual vacuum on the guage to see how well the engine is producing vacuum. The cam's overlap may drop vacuum though so comparing factory vacuum and a cammed engines vacuum will show different. Main thing is spikes and fluttering indicating sticking valves,lifers etc.

Where do I hook it up at?

 

[outnumbered]

yellow freight was going and willing to pay for a complete teardown or engine, engine was shipped back to sloan, sloan ok'd engine, reshipped back to wolfram

That completley sucks if the motor was not torn down!

 

[bigike]

#9's wet, the heat gun would show what effect that was having on you combustion.

If it was a crank and the problem was that bad, wouldn't she have built a window in that block by now?

Have you crawled around that thing with a stethiscope, paying close attention the the front and rear mains and oil pan? If there's something not right you'd hear it there.

 

[bigike]

http://www.automotive-diagnostic-tools.com/Electronic-Engine-Stethoscope-p/ta32100.htm

How to diagnose engine noise

http://remanufactured-engines.com/page4.htm

I highly recomend a set of electronic stethescopes..

My buddies dad made a bunch in the 80's. They had magnets that you'd attach to the engine then to a box with a selector switch and headphones. I could drive down the road and listen to the engine. Found dead lifters, bad rod bearings and i could tell you what rod was bad without pulling plug wires.

 

[VENOMOUS1 RACING]

Where do I hook it up at?

A vacuum line without a check valve or before the check valve. Definately get a UOA fast as it and the leakdown test IMO are going to tell a story!

 

[rottenronnie]

Regardless of what has happened or why, your engine's problems don't sound like anything that will get better on their own. Either it didn't ring-seal (for whatever the reasons), or it is leaking oil, or both. As for the vibration, dropping the engine probably didn't do it any good.

Without a SOLID foundation (a good block), the rest of the build can never be quite right. I wasn't sure, reading Stinker's post, if you ended up with a bad one or not.

It would be interesting to look at the front of the #3 main (thrust bearing) to see if that crank really did get shoved (HARD) toward the back of the block, when it was dropped. Those cranks are nearly 100 pounds and they have to run true.

Seriously, I would pull your engine out and start from scratch. If it was a good build/bad build or the majority of the problems happened because it was dropped, it just doesn't matter at this point.

A shitty deal nonetheless.

Best of luck to you getting it all sorted out.


Ronnie