Battery Relocation - Hesitant Start (Video)

[Chuck B]

Lets keep this simple. Prior to the relocation kit all worked fine... You install the kit relocating the battery to the rear and now you have the issue. Glancing thru all your posts your battery appears to be fine however it could be getting on the 'low side'. You've double checked your connections/grounds etc. Fact that it sometimes works fine and most times does not leads me to think you have a high resistance issue. Voltage drop also confirms an issue. I'd further guess that its the cables. All cables are not the same. Current tends to travel better in cables with higher strand counts.

Years ago when I competed in high end stereo world we found most welding cables or other heavy duty cables just didn't pass enough current. They were beefy, stiff and seemed like more than required but we were constantly dealing with battery issues either right away or shortly thereafter. Remember welders have a lot more voltage (umph) behind them so not as critical to cable selection.

Stop by your local custom audio store and pick up some highend pwr cable. I'd wager that will solve your problem. A good cable will be very flexible with many times the number of strands. A new battery may in fact solve it too however it'll be temporary as you still have a high resistance situation. Been there done that too often.

 

[71dusterjon]

like others have said, just because you may see 12 v doesn't mean the battery is good. i just had to replace a battery in a 360 stradale because the battery percentage was about 11 but it was showing 12v. A fresh battery will probably solve your problems and is one of the simplest fixes (if it doesn't work atleast you can confirm its not the battery).

I believe once a battery goes dead it will only recharge to 85% of its original capacity due to the plates becoming coated and not allowing charge to pass.

 

[includemeout]

Lets keep this simple. Prior to the relocation kit all worked fine... You install the kit relocating the battery to the rear and now you have the issue. Glancing thru all your posts your battery appears to be fine however it could be getting on the 'low side'. You've double checked your connections/grounds etc. Fact that it sometimes works fine and most times does not leads me to think you have a high resistance issue. Voltage drop also confirms an issue. I'd further guess that its the cables. All cables are not the same. Current tends to travel better in cables with higher strand counts.

Years ago when I competed in high end stereo world we found most welding cables or other heavy duty cables just didn't pass enough current. They were beefy, stiff and seemed like more than required but we were constantly dealing with battery issues either right away or shortly thereafter. Remember welders have a lot more voltage (umph) behind them so not as critical to cable selection.
Stop by your local custom audio store and pick up some highend pwr cable. I'd wager that will solve your problem. A good cable will be very flexible with many times the number of strands. A new battery may in fact solve it too however it'll be temporary as you still have a high resistance situation. Been there done that too often.

Not buying your theory about high voltage and welders :argh: :argh:

These are specs from a typical constant current/ constant voltage welding machine. If you notice the Open Circuit Voltage is only 80 volts ( a safety feature or all us or we would be electrocuted every time we got close to one)

As soon as the circuit is closed ( please see Rated Load Voltage as it is only 25 volts) the voltage drops to 24 volts

The purpose of fine multi stranded welding cable has to deal with amperage not voltage ( see Rated Current Output) it is 160 amps at 24 volts (closed circuit)


Rated Input Voltage
220V, 1Ph.

Rated Output Current
160 Amps.

Rated Input Power
4 KVA

Rated Load Voltage
25V

Open Circuit Voltage
80V

 

[oldcolt]

Carl, I was chasing a cranking issue last summer. My battery is in the stock location, but I was having trouble starting the truck. I put that battery in my '73 Colt and it would not start the mighty 1600cc. Turns out it was the negative post on the battery. I must have over tightened it and damaged the post. It was hard to figure out as the voltage was fine. New battery and all was fine.:burnout: :burnout: :burnout: :burnout: :burnout:

 

[kennygene]

Just put the battery from your 10 in your Challenger and if it starts ok (with a hot engine), then replace some cables in the truck. - "nuff said"

 

[Psycho1122]

Gentlemen;

Has anyone considered the possibility of a "Overcharge Condition" causing the battery to prematurely fail? I posted earlier asking about the battery temerature sensor. I read that the with the kit, members are just tying the sensor out of the way?

The newest alternators are "temperature compensated". This means they charge at different voltages depending on the temperature. A hot battery requires less voltage to charge than a cold battery, so the temperature compensated alternators charge at a lower voltage when hot than when cold. In any case, any voltage reading below 13.5 volts or so is a sure sign of trouble.

I have been considering the relocation kit. However, I would like to look into the charging process first.

Thanks Again Guys!

 

[Chuck B]

Not buying your theory about high voltage and welders :argh: :argh:

These are specs from a typical constant current/ constant voltage welding machine. If you notice the Open Circuit Voltage is only 80 volts ( a safety feature or all us or we would be electrocuted every time we got close to one)

As soon as the circuit is closed ( please see Rated Load Voltage as it is only 25 volts) the voltage drops to 24 volts

The purpose of fine multi stranded welding cable has to deal with amperage not voltage ( see Rated Current Output) it is 160 amps at 24 volts (closed circuit)

My point was many heavy duty cables can not pass high current loads and he should look at a cable with higher strand count. Higher strand count even in the same size/gauge will pass more current at lower resistance. I'm not a welder though I was under the impression most were in the 40v range. I have friend who is automotive designer and he has stated repeatedly voltages need to be min 24v in todays vehicles.

 

[includemeout]

My point was many heavy duty cables can not pass high current loads and he should look at a cable with higher strand count. Higher strand count even in the same size/gauge will pass more current at lower resistance. I'm not a welder though I was under the impression most were in the 40v range. I have friend who is automotive designer and he has stated repeatedly voltages need to be min 24v in todays vehicles.

Agreed, more strands less resistance.
There are welding cables with well over 2300 strands available.
Just as changing from 6volt to 12 volt, 24 volt ( or better) would be the way to go.

 

[pokeytemplar]

I had the same problem when I relocated my factory battery to the rear as I made a new tray for my odyssey battery. My problem was too high of a guage wire for the distance/current I was moving.

 

[nycstev]

I had the same problem when I relocated my factory battery to the rear as I made a new tray for my odyssey battery. My problem was too high of a guage wire for the distance/current I was moving.

Thats what I said B4. Change out those cables!

 

[pokeytemplar]

Thats what I said B4. Change out those cables!

Didn't know you said that. Skipped some of the posts before I hit reply!

 

[Carlwalski]

Thanks guys, good food for thought. I still can't see it being the cables myself, but I'm no pro. But why have others not had issues and why would Justin still be selling the cable? I'm getting a new red top replaced under warranty (bwahahaha) always good talking to those bumbandit reps in person. I'll be getting it on (your) Sunday so will let you know how it goes. I sure hope it works, I just want to go for a drive and do some skids LOL.

 

[Prof]

I think your new battery will be the solution!

Your comment about working for some but not for others is the point...if the battery is good this mod works perfectly...JMB rocks!

 

[bclark05]

Good luck, keep us posted. I have the kit in my garage, just want to hear your fix first before I install.

 

[yakdick]

hey carlwalski! what do you have for an exhaust system on your 10.. i like how it sounds....

 

[Carlwalski]

hey carlwalski! what do you have for an exhaust system on your 10.. i like how it sounds....

Thanks mate! I'm running Billy Boat long tube headers, catless mids and exhaust system.

 

[Carlwalski]

Hey guys, managed to get a brand new Optima off a mate, new unused. He lent it to me to test it for as long as I need, his project isn't ready. We put it in and the 1st start was normal. The next start 1 minute later hesitated - BUGGER!!!! I've started it on and off over the last few hours, let it cool, while it's warm, hot, etc etc, still not 100% with delayed inconsistent starts. Had a sparky here again, he said it's nothing serious and only an "issue" as I KNOW it wasn't like that before. He said if you hadn't of known how it was before, you probably wouldn't even have picked up on it. But, this isn't the case and I'm a picky bastard. There's around a 1.5volt drop from front to back now, this will be enough to delay it IMO. While I "could" live with it and literally be fine, I'm fussy and prefer performance/functionality over looks any day of the week. Besides in the real world, off the www and this forum, I'd rather have instant starts. All good have a slightly emptier engine bay for photos and "wow" but in the real world driving situations (what counts) it has no impact on me or factor.

We're pretty much certain now it's got to be the cable and the distance the voltage has to travel. Basically as nothing else has changed since I moved it, nothing else it really can be. The cable holds current, not volts (or is it vice versa, I forget now) but in laymans terms, when you crank it it sucks all that stored current and the battery all of sudden says "oh shit, we're low, send more power!" this is just enough to delay the starting process. I've checked EVERYTHING else. Grounds, starter and finally battery. I am more than likely going to put it up the front, it'll be fine up there, I'll mask and paint it black. No wires up there so it'll still be super tidy, besides, when anyone looks into an engine bay, they expect to see a battery. I want instant crisp starts and I don't think I can get my mind around these hesitant delayed cranks. I'm only a little gutted at the dollars spent on the kit and hassle trying to get this to function. When you think of it, the current has around 4 metres? to travel vs. the original position of 2ft, that's a major difference in travel. Other pros are jump starting ease (if ever needed) and when working, be able to pop the hood and disconnect it instantly.


Thanks everyone!!



Here's a real bros photoshop lol but you get my point and you should know me by now, I'll make it look half decent. I "may" look at getting a custom cover too. Who knows!

 

[JTS VENOM PERFORMANCE]

this is a long shot, but may give you what you need, look into the ffront section of the bumper area, it will take a bit of doing, but you should be able to mount it nder the front bumper area, you will have to remove everything and do your own fabrication, but the battery will be hid and close to the starter,

now get to work:argh:

 

[Carlwalski]

this is a long shot, but may give you what you need, look into the ffront section of the bumper area, it will take a bit of doing, but you should be able to mount it nder the front bumper area, you will have to remove everything and do your own fabrication, but the battery will be hid and close to the starter,

now get to work:argh:

Thanks brother but to be honest, it really doesn't bother me having a battery in the front engine bay, what bothered me and pushed me to do the engine bay were all the wires in front of it (see image below). I only purchased the kit basically as a "may as while while I'm doing it" mod. Plus I liked the extra weight over the wheel but that is easily duplicated and seat of the pants made no difference. Now the wires are gone it's super tidy and what I'll do is run the battery wires in from the back from behind the inner fender so all you'll see 3" of them, it'll be a clean setup.

While a new battery worked for some, in this thread we've also seen 3 or 4 others where it didn't, no dramas. If it's going to the front I only see the normal position as an option, especially for ease of removal and disconnection. I know you can add jumper leads in and still hide it but I don't want to to that. Plus, if we get real picky, it's further back. I still have half the battery tray in place now (that holds the cylinder to the right and the fuse box to the left). I'm actually looking forward to putting it up front lol.

 

[Prof]

How about two batteries in the rear? There are advantages...two new optima's ought to provide the jolt you need to avoid the hesitation.