Forced Induction Questions - Help Me Decide

[TNVIPER]

Carl I am not sure what the "special order" injectors are but if they are the 48LB that come with the Roe kit I would upgrade tp 69LB. You will be pushing around 11 PSI out of the Roe with the std 5.6 LB pulley and Stinker's 7" crank pulley.

If you are planning on wringing every horse the Roe is capable of you might consider dropping the MSD voltage increaser and going with JMB's total fuel system (2 in-tank pumps, larger fuel lines and larger fuel rails).

The MSD did help me but just barely. My pressure holds at 62 LBS till about 4500 RPM where it starts dropping to 55LBs by 5800 RPM. I was dropping to about 47LBs before adding the MSD.

Just a few suggestions from my experience with the Roe.

 

[Carlwalski]

Looks good. I also like roller rockers, crower is what I put in mine. But then you either need valve cover spacers or taller valve covers.

I don't like using a voltage booster on the fuel pump as a way to add fuel. Go with 2 or 3 walboro pumps in the tank. Still internal so not loud and all the fuel you could want.

Thanks! Are roller rockers going to see an increase in hp or strength? Keeping in mind it's a Roe SC street brawler, not a big twin turbo application. I was told and have seen heaps while searching that it's best to keep the stock heads and possibly stock cam, just to port match the heads. 1 more vote for the fuel pumps, cool.

Carl I am not sure what the "special order" injectors are but if they are the 48LB that come with the Roe kit I would upgrade tp 69LB. You will be pushing around 11 PSI out of the Roe with the std 5.6 LB pulley and Stinker's 7" crank pulley.

If you are planning on wringing every horse the Roe is capable of you might consider dropping the MSD voltage increaser and going with JMB's total fuel system (2 in-tank pumps, larger fuel lines and larger fuel rails).

The MSD did help me but just barely. My pressure holds at 62 LBS till about 4500 RPM where it starts dropping to 55LBs by 5800 RPM. I was dropping to about 47LBs before adding the MSD.

Just a few suggestions from my experience with the Roe.

Thanks mate, yes, they are the 69lb injectors. 11psi, cool! What pulley do you run and what have you found (and others) to be the best? The stock Roe Pulley 5.6lbs? The 10lb pulley? The second vote for fuel pumps, thanks, I'll look into the fuel pumps.



Thanks guys :rock:

 

[bigike]

Come on what would "larry" know about a roe...............

I'm going to look into a fuel system also.

 

[bigike]

Roe said it was designed for the stock cam, he thought that might be the problem with my truck....

 

[pokeytemplar]

I would also get ARP main studs and cross-bolts to go with the Pro-gram Main Caps. I would add a second inline fuel pump before I did the voltage boost as well.......

 

[Prof]

I am boosting about 8 lbs...and I think I am very close to max on the stock fuel system...if you are going over 10 lbs. think long and hard about how to supply the fuel...

 

[Carlwalski]

Thanks everyone, great input and advice.

 

[TNVIPER]

Thanks! Are roller rockers going to see an increase in hp or strength? Keeping in mind it's a Roe SC street brawler, not a big twin turbo application. I was told and have seen heaps while searching that it's best to keep the stock heads and possibly stock cam, just to port match the heads. 1 more vote for the fuel pumps, cool.



Thanks mate, yes, they are the 69lb injectors. 11psi, cool! What pulley do you run and what have you found (and others) to be the best? The stock Roe Pulley 5.6lbs? The 10lb pulley? The second vote for fuel pumps, thanks, I'll look into the fuel pumps.



Thanks guys :rock:

I mean that you are going to be around 11psi with the 7" crank pulley and Roe's standard 5.6 LB pulley.....I havent tried the 10LB pulley but I would estimate 13-14 psi.............my heads are ported with larger valves so my psi readings are probably a little lower (maybe a LB) than someone with stock heads.......do the fuel pumps especially if you plan to see mid teens psi.....

 

[Carlwalski]

I mean that you are going to be around 11psi with the 7" crank pulley and Roe's standard 5.6 LB pulley.....I havent tried the 10LB pulley but I would estimate 13-14 psi.............my heads are ported with larger valves so my psi readings are probably a little lower (maybe a LB) than someone with stock heads.......do the fuel pumps especially if you plan to see mid teens psi.....

Sweet, I gotcha. Thanks! Roe doesn't list the pulleys, what are they worth, like the 10lb one, $200? :dontknow: Wonder what a dyno pull with 13-14psi would make, would have to be over 650rwhp behind a T56, surely. I plan to look into the dual Walboro fuel pumps, lines and rails which are good for 1,000hp+ so more than ample for the Roe SC.

 

[TNVIPER]

Sweet, I gotcha. Thanks! Roe doesn't list the pulleys, what are they worth, like the 10lb one, $200? :dontknow: Wonder what a dyno pull with 13-14psi would make, would have to be over 650rwhp behind a T56, surely. I plan to look into the dual Walboro fuel pumps, lines and rails which are good for 1,000hp+ so more than ample for the Roe SC.

At 11 psi I dynoed 670 RWHP at 4700 rpm...that is where I started to lean out from lack of fuel and started losing power (that was 90 more HP than I made at the same rpm with the stock crank pulley and a 10LB pulley on the Roe)....plan to get the 69 LB injectors then go back to the dyno and finish tuning this bitch....I expect 700+ HP...........

I have a 10LB pulley but havent tried it with the 7" crank pulley because from what others have said I doubt it would help due to the restriction of the Roe intake....may give it a shot though when I do the dyno tune..

 

[Carlwalski]

At 11 psi I dynoed 670 RWHP at 4700 rpm...that is where I started to lean out from lack of fuel and started losing power (that was 90 more HP than I made at the same rpm with the stock crank pulley and a 10LB pulley on the Roe)....plan to get the 69 LB injectors then go back to the dyno and finish tuning this bitch....I expect 700+ HP...........

I have a 10LB pulley but havent tried it with the 7" crank pulley because from what others have said I doubt it would help due to the restriction of the Roe intake....may give it a shot though when I do the dyno tune..

Good info, thnaks mate, much appreciated.

I'm looking for info on the factory pistons, needing their specs. Does anyone have this info or know a RELIABLE SOURCE of where this info can be found? Just wondering if I should get another cam or one with a little more lift. Talking to Stinker I don't think I'll find a 708 cam, but he said he usually sells the 270hr Comp Cam which is very comparable to the 708. Also doing some homework trying to find some standard/factory sized: valves, valve springs, retainers and locks but made of titanium instead. Last but not least, some roller rockers to suit the stock heads.



Thanks,
Carl

 

[moparracing]

Just wondering if I should get another cam or one with a little more lift. Talking to Stinker I don't think I'll find a 708 cam, but he said he usually sells the 270hr Comp Cam which is very comparable to the 708. Also doing some homework trying to find some standard/factory sized: valves, valve springs, retainers and locks but made of titanium instead. Last but not least, some roller rockers to suit the stock heads.

Thanks,
Carl

checkout ironhead, he had alot of porting work done to stock heads & a cam that sounds awesome:

http://www.vtcoa.com/forums/showpost.php?p=700748&postcount=42

 

[Carlwalski]

checkout ironhead, he had alot of porting work done to stock heads & a cam that sounds awesome:

http://www.vtcoa.com/forums/showpost.php?p=700748&postcount=42

Thanks mate, that is the cam Stinker referred to, awesome to have a video of it lol (more like flukey!). I won't be having any major port work done, doesn't go down well with the Roe, just port matching and upgrading to heavy duty parts. From what I have read, the stock cam is probably one of the best parts in the whole engine, isn't it? Or does that sound right? Most of the Roe topics say: "keep the stock cam and port match the heads only, don't go wild" and then just forge the rest and pick up hp/T where you can in other places. I have one of the best tuners in Australasia working for me so tuning it won't be an issues, can't wait to see what he can do for the BATRAM. Although he said his main goal is making it stout and pur, no pinging, perfect mixture, etc etc, then and only then, worry about dialing it in for more power. He thinks like me, so we're a good team.


Still not sure if I should flag the cam.......:dontknow: If I can find the stock cam specs I can print them off then print off the HR264 and HR274 Compcam specs and just give them to my engine builder/tuner.

 

[moparracing]

Thanks mate, that is the cam Stinker referred to, awesome to have a video of it lol (more like flukey!). I won't be having any major port work done, doesn't go down well with the Roe, just port matching and upgrading to heavy duty parts. From what I have read, the stock cam is probably one of the best parts in the whole engine, isn't it? Or does that sound right? Most of the Roe topics say: "keep the stock cam and port match the heads only, don't go wild" and then just forge the rest and pick up hp/T where you can in other places. I have one of the best tuners in Australasia working for me so tuning it won't be an issues, can't wait to see what he can do for the BATRAM. Although he said his main goal is making it stout and pur, no pinging, perfect mixture, etc etc, then and only then, worry about dialing it in for more power. He thinks like me, so we're a good team.


Still not sure if I should flag the cam.......:dontknow: If I can find the stock cam specs I can print them off then print off the HR264 and HR274 Compcam specs and just give them to my engine builder/tuner.

opps, sorry..... i was refering to an NA engine, not FI........ my bad.

 

[Scrambler1]

Yeah you are better off not going crazy on the heads and cam. Those of us who did that and then tried to put the Paxton back on had very disappointing results. None of us could get over 4psi of boost and around 650hp. Opening the engine up works great with turbos where you can force more air in than you could ever want. This does not work well with a Paxton or Roe which was designed for a stock engine and is close to maxed out as it is.

 

[Carlwalski]

Thanks Scrambler, you along with many others have been very informative.

Doing research and searches every night, even the same keywords 3 or 4 times just to make sure I didn't miss any thread. Found one where people are talking about "porting" the Roe intake? Or drilling 1/4" holes to increase the cfm. Heck, wonder how hard it would be (I know expensive) to customise your own intake, taller (currently 2"). If we can allow more flow we can port heads and run higher flow numbers, on paper anyhow.

I think at this stage, for the best engine build I can get, I will probably get the universal stuff like billet main caps, etc then once we have the Roe, look at the heads, cam, pistons etc when it arrives down here and order each product as my engine builder/tuner sees fit. Much easier for builders once they have the block in hand to weave their magic. Just means a longer build because we don't have most of the parts for V10s in stock down here lol. 2 days shipping in the US turns into 4-7 days down here for big $$$ or 10-15+ for $$ lol.


Cheers

 

[pokeytemplar]

Are you looking at Ti Valves or just retainers? That (Ti Valves) is a lot of money to be spending on an engine with a Hyd roller cam. The lighter weight valves would allow a few more rpm out of it but then you have to worry about your oil pump, etc., at higher rpms.

Definitely build the bottom end first. You can always do the heads later on since you won't have to pull the engine to work on them.

 

[Carlwalski]

Are you looking at Ti Valves or just retainers? That (Ti Valves) is a lot of money to be spending on an engine with a Hyd roller cam. The lighter weight valves would allow a few more rpm out of it but then you have to worry about your oil pump, etc., at higher rpms.

Definitely build the bottom end first. You can always do the heads later on since you won't have to pull the engine to work on them.

Not sure, Ti = titanium? If so then yes. But at this stage the engine builder hasn't had much to say as it all depends on my pocket on which way I want to go and times are tough. But, I have never and will never buy crap or sacrifice the best to shave a few dollars here and there. You have to pay, to play. At this stage I'm not 100% sure what I'm doing yet lol. Will be going in to the resto shop tomorrow to talk with the engine builder so will make sure all of us have a better understanding of my goals tomorrow.

 

[pokeytemplar]

Titanium or steel aren't crap and one isn't better than the other. Each has it's own place. I didn't want you to spend a ton of money on something that could actually cause more problems in a street build.

 

[Carlwalski]

Titanium or steel aren't crap and one isn't better than the other. Each has it's own place. I didn't want you to spend a ton of money on something that could actually cause more problems in a street build.

Aha, I see, thanks. Those are still the only parts I haven't found yet. I'm now going to look very seriously at a custom ProCharger F2 kit (like 90% positive), built by us down under to suit my needs. I can run 700rwhp easily and the capabilities are awesome with 2700cfm and 38psi specs. So, internal parts for performance aren't needed now as with an F2, hp = sky's the limit (kind of lol). Just looking for:

Roller Rockers (Jessels I've heard are the best?)
Valve Springs - Titanium $?
Valves - Titanium $?
Push Rods - Titanium $?
Retainers & Rods $?
Cometic Head Gaskets (x2) - $?

I'm not 100% sure if I need the titanium, I'm just needing the strongest we can get, not interested in any performance gains, just want TOUGH. My builder is awesome but down under, Vipers are rare, heck, we're lucky to get a number or two for 3-5 OWNERS let alone builders, hence the reason I'm asking you guys. He can build it but when it comes to what everyone is using, we just don't get enough down here to justify "everyone". I've got a couple of emails sent thanks to members here and PMs but thus far, the above parts are giving me grief. My plans are to keep the stock heads and cam. What is the limits on these parts, hp/T wise? Does the cam need to be upgraded?


Thanks!